Islam in Uzbekistan

[Abdul]

Here are some quesions for discussion
how do you guys (girls) see Islam in the 21st century in our state?
What is it going to look like (what do you think?)?
Or, how would you like it to be?
Or, how would you like it to see?
Thanks

[Steel]

Assalamu 'alaykum,
the most important of all, my friend, I would like to say is that I don't want to see Islam as a political, ideolodical, or military tool; it is a religion, and essential part of our life. I hope very much, insha'alloh, people in our region will stop being influenced by some groups that want to use Islam in their own favor.
About the future, I don't think that it will be somehow changed, it's principles will remain as they are now and were many years ago.

my best wishes,
-steel
aka Al-fulath Az-zahabiy Ibn Rustam

[Abdul]

"About the future, I don't think that it will be somehow changed, it's principles will remain as they are now and
were many years ago."
Do you think the principles are same now with those many years ago? Did you mean it is going to be like it is today in Uzbekistan or somewhere else?
See, I study Central Asian politics topic and every book that I read starts with Islam, they refer to it as "an issential part of life in Centarl Asia". I do agree with it. And the reason I raised this topic was to predict what is our life is going to be like in the future.
In the present world, I think, it is very difficult to maintain a religion without the interfernce of politics. You may wish it, but that is the way it is now.

[Some1]

I totally agree with my brother Abdou, cause Islam covers every bit of your everyday life starting when you wake up and go to sleep at night. The thing is some of us realize it but others unfortunately do not, even they unconsiuosly do follow Islam. As some outstanding French scholar said a centuries that Islam is very difficult subject to understand for us and until we follow certain conditions it would remain so. And God forbid to try to approach Islam with hate.

Jasa'ak Allah Khair,

Uqishlarda muvaffaqiyat.

[Steel]

I'm pretty sure that the principles are remained the same, if you are talking about 'modifications' those are not changes in principles, but some new interpretations of principles (studies of tariqats, separate sects, and others). For instance, views of m'uta'ziliyes and mutakallims, you might have studied a lot of books on the religion of Central Asia at IU or whereever else.

A counter-question, do you think that anybody would dare to change holy principles of Qu'ranu Karim and the other muslims wil accept that?

I'm completely agree with that, nowadays, the influence of the Islam on political views of people is immense. But as I said I hope that will stop, because we are very religious and we respect our traditions, that's excellent, but it can be used by others (with not quite good intentions) to affect our political opinions.

[Abdul]

Dear Steel,
first of all, I am imressed you found I was from IU. Wow.
I really respect your knowledge in Islam, it seems like you know a lot about it. I don't know much about it, that was the reason I started it. See, I consider myself a Muslim, because I was born in a Muslim family and from young childhood was taught some principles of it. Here, in America I see that Islam is much more than I thought it was. Now I started to question myself, whether I was a Muslim or who "they" are. According to "them" (Muslims I met) I am not a Muslim, and according to Hizboot Tahir (not sure about the speelling) I am a kafir (hasha).
In the literature I have studied, scholars paid a great attention at Islam, as I have mentioned earlier. You can devide our country to many identities based on territory, language, historical background and even ISLAM (!). I was shocked to discover that, but what and how we, Tashkent people percieve Islam is not the same as for those in the Valley region, and is totally different from those in Karakalpakistan. Do you know what I mean?
How do you think this "diversity" of perception of Islam in our country can be eliminated?
Returning to your question I don't think anobody will dare to change the principles of Islam, unless they know what they are doing, and other may accept it, also just because of the lack of knowledge. That is my point.
Thank you.

[Steel]

My brother Abdul (is it Abdulloh - "Slave of Allah"),
I also don't know too much about Islam, and I'm in the exact the same situation as you are. I was born in Muslim family, brought up learning and respecting Islam, and living with the main concept of Islam in my heart and mind "La Illaha illa l-lakhi, va Muhammadu Rasulu-l lahi". But There are a lot of people that can consider me as not a real Muslim, because I don't meet 5 requirements of Islam.
You are right, there is a huge difference of views at different part of our Motherland. What I want to say that you can't eliminate that difference becuase it has been developed during the whole history of Islam in Central Asia and it has very strong roots. The only thing we can do is respect the others opinions and attitudes.
Comming back to your initial question, of course Islam controls everything, but right now our people is in tough situation of choice between Government and Religion, and in my opinion it is the root of the problems we have back in our country.

Thank you,
-steel

[Lucky]

Peace.Salom.Mir.Tinchlik.
Bir kishining shaxsiy fikri meniki emas, fikr egasi nomalum qolishni istadi.
"Tilim mening balodir ne kuylarga solodir.(maqol)
Bolalar sizlarga bir gap olsangiz nasihat olmasangiz fasihat.
Bu board islom ni discuss qilishga munosib board emas,chunki ko'pincha
discussion janjalga aylanib tugaydi.Keyingi masala bizda milliy xafsiz
lik xizmati degan tashkilot bor.Sizga oxshagan bolalar etiboriga tezda
tushib natijada.......................................... ............
Keyin hech bir kishi,tashkilot sizni kofir deb e'lon qila olmaydi,bu
mumkin emas agar shunday boladigan bolsa ularning o'zi kofirga chiqib
qoladi(hadis boyicha).Agarda o'zingiz ochiqchasiga tan olib men islom
GA ishonmayman desangiz,u holda siz ni o'sha nom bilan atashi mumkin
keyingi masala ularning sizga hech qanday jismoniy zarar yetqizishga
haqqi youq,qila olmaydi ham agarda shariatga amal qiladigan bolishsa.
Ammo sizning o'zingiz urushni birinchi boshlasangiz u holda ularning
(musulmonlarning)qonuni boyicha siz bilan oxirgi tomchi qoni qolguncha
urushishga haqqi bor.
Keyingi masala Islomning kelajakda vatanimizdagi o'rni haqida.Kelajak
bilimlari faqat Xudo ga ma'lum(musulmonlarning qonuni boyicha),shunday
ekan bu haqda gapirib otirishdan mani youq.Hozirgi holati haqida gap
yuritadigan bolsak bu bolayotgan voqealar vaqtincha,hukumat qatiy choralarni kormasa ham bolmay qoldi axir,xar xil nomaqul ishlardan song.Bu islomga qarshilik bolyapti degani emas,balki islomni tushunmasdan ekstremistik kayfiyatda yurgan bazi kimsalarga qarshi qaratilgan halq fronti deb tushunilsa ham boladi(chunki qariyib %95 aholiularni yoqlamaydi).Faqat salbiy fikrlarni bildirmasdan musulmonlar kozlarini ochsa bolardi.Juma kuni juma namozi o'qilayotgan bolsa,Eid ul
fitr va eid ul Adha kunlari ommaviy bayram sifatida nishonlansa,minglab
fuqarolarimiz har yili hajga borayotgan bolsa axir yana nima kerak.SSSR
hali esimizdan chiqqani yoq,ehe qanday zamonlar edi va qancha ozgarishlar boldi,shukr qilish kk,Xudo ham kop noliganni yoqtirmaydi"

[Steel]

Assalamu alaykum,
dear Mr. Lucky,
I'm agree with your points given in your message. What I wanted to say is just explain that I'm not complying about anything, or going againts my country's interests. I know that I'm muslim and nobody is refuting it, moreover I love my country and people, and will never be against it; I'm sure any Umidie has the same patriotic feelings about it.

I think you maybe just misunderstood our points. I know that Uzbekistan is doing a lot of good things for the religions (as you mentioned religious holidays, researching and bringing up works of Al-Bukhoriy, and the other wonderful activities). And no way I wanted to predict the future of Islam.

I'm sorry if some of my ideas were vague or not understandable (I always had problems with my papers on EH classes:)). It might be because of my writing style.

Thank you,
-steel

[Lucky]

Assalamu alaykum qadrli Steel.etiboringiz uchun tashakkur.
Uzr, messageni sinchiklab o'qimabsiz.U yerda yozilgan fikr meniki emas.Bir kishiniki.Mendan iltimos qilingan edi post qilib qoya qoldim.Yana bir bor uzr.Nick meniki bolsada fikrlar meninki emas.

[Abdul]

Dear Lucky and everybody discussing this topic,
"yes" I have heard of "Milliy Hafsizlik Xizmati", so what? I am not preaching Islam, and won't anybody let preach it over the net to me. That is very true that many discussions on topic of Islam usually lead to many endless arguments, but that is and was not my intention. I don't start something just for the sake of starting. I started this topic to seek for some solutions, and that is the reason I referred to you, scholars, who have KNOWLEDGE and BRAINS, who can possibly think of such problems.
I wanted to ask you to think of an idea of teaching Islam as a subject in secondary schools, from the first grade. It's gonna be taught as all usual sciences, like math, for example. Why does everybody know how to calculate numbers? Because they were taught so, so if you teach Islam as a science, I think and hope it's gonna prevent many things like extremism and stuff like that. My belief is that all what we live today is because of miseducation.
This subject won't make students pray, but it's gonna explain the main ideas of this religion. Not only Islam, but other religions are gonna be studied, so students know about more, this all is knowledge -- power!
And again, I know what I'm talking about and if my topic leads to any useless and endless arguments and stuff like that I'm just gonna stop it.
Thank you.
"A nail that stands out gets pounded down"
(Asian proverb)

[Some1]

I do agree with my brother Abdou in many points. As Islamic education and ect. Islam is powerfull force and it could help our country a lot. But it seems Muslims never learn from their mistakes and history repeats itself again as in Algeria ,or Turkey, this time in Central Asia. For example Nuchi colleges set up in Central Asia were best educational establishments in the region but they all have been closed down. Ignorance - Jahl has again won ower Enlightenment -Nur. Salvation for our Muslim countries would come from within of ourself , not from secular Western propaganda or Nationalistic fallse ideas.

Uqishlarda omad hammaga,

Someone.

[Sher+/+UK]

Remember guys, our country was developing(or have developed already) its
own way, regarding economy and politics. I think the same thing is going
to happen to our Islam. And what you Abdul have said about education will
help to build up our 'muslim identity' and decrease any outside influences
which can harm our society.
I think this is inevitable process, and our government should try to help
to do it nationwide, without deversities you have mentioned. Our national
TV and Press also is a very good and only tool to achieve that target.
Maybe I just state the obvious, but somebody should do it.
OMAD

[Abdul]

Dear friends,
I liked the expression used by +Sher/+UK (?) "muslim identity" of our nation. Look, our nation does it best compared to its neighbours in creating it own "national identity", as a result we are proud to say we are Uzbeks. Western scholars say this is due to policy by our president I. Karimov. Neighbouring Central Asian countries have succseeded less then we did, this is also acknowledged. Here is my point, look, any other nation can't come and preach you his nation, cus you know your nation better then he might teach you about. You know about your history, achievements of your nation, great shcolars and so. They can't change your oponion because you have strong national identity. Well, if we build our "muslim identity" it's gonna help us from been influenced by foreign propaganda.
Arab countries that sponsor all these things, Pakistan and Chechnya, who create those "soldiers" seek from us not what they say. I believe, they use this religion as a strong tool. Behind all these countries stands someone, or some.
Unless we are prepared for these "missionary" attacks from abroad, we are gonna have problems. Raising awareness among population is a big thing. Mass Media tries to do it, but it does not work much, I believe. What are other things that can be implemented and used to raise nation's awareness?

[Lucky]

Assalamu alaykum.
who is going to teach religious classes at high schools?And according to what school of thoughtshanafi,hanbali,shofii,or maliki?
Is it gonna be "uzbek way of islam"?Saudi way
of islam?or Real "islam"?Or modernized "islam"-where haram is made halal or halal is made haram?What about the minority-christians,jewish,hindus?are they also gonna be uzbek way of christianity,judaism,buddhism? what about the atheits ? Are we gonna force them to study religious classes?They also have a right not to study religious classes as we have a right to study religious classes.Are the teachers at the universities going to take bribe from christians,jews,etc, for not knowing islam .I am confused tell me.What kind of state system are we going to build?Democracy based on greek philosophy,Modern democracy based on"american dream" where they make lawful the same gender marriage? Or russian way of democracy that looks like anarchy?I feel sorry for the leaders of that country where they are mocked in newspapers for ex standing with naked woman.I can see no limit in their
disrespect to the government officials.I see there are people who is for adopting western way of democracy.Where are we goin? ya I read
and heard many times that we are gonna build our own democracy based on our values and circumstances.what exactly are our values?
I would be very happy if anybody answers to the questions mentioned above.Those questions bother 25 million uzbekistan citizens today.
salomat bolingizlar, oqishlarda omad va muvaffaqqiyat.

[Lucky]

Assalamu alaykum.
who is going to teach religious classes at high schools?And according to what school of thoughtshanafi,hanbali,shofii,or maliki?
Is it gonna be "uzbek way of islam"?Saudi way
of islam?or Real "islam"?Or modernized "islam"-where haram is made halal or halal is made haram?What about the minority-christians,jewish,hindus?are they also gonna be uzbek way of christianity,judaism,buddhism? what about the atheits ? Are we gonna force them to study religious classes?They also have a right not to study religious classes as we have a right to study religious classes.Are the teachers at the universities going to take bribe from christians,jews,etc, for not knowing islam .I am confused tell me.What kind of state system are we going to build?Democracy based on greek philosophy,Modern democracy based on"american dream" where they make lawful the same gender marriage? Or russian way of democracy that looks like anarchy?I feel sorry for the leaders of that country where they are mocked in newspapers for ex standing with naked woman.I can see no limit in their
disrespect to the government officials.I see there are people who is for adopting western way of democracy.Where are we goin? ya I read
and heard many times that we are gonna build our own democracy based on our values and circumstances.what exactly are our values?please do not ask me "well if yu do not know the answers for those questions how did you become "umidie"?
I would be very happy if anybody answers to the questions mentioned above.Those questions bother 25 million uzbekistan citizens today.
salomat bolingizlar, oqishlarda omad va muvaffaqqiyat.

[Abdul]

Assalamu alaykum.
School of Education (Ped istitut) is going to take care of cadre to teach, and I told you, they are not gonna make you pray and follow Islam, but give knowledge, which means they are gonna teach you whatever they find is necessary to. It's not Uzbek way of Islam, it's Islamic way of Islam. I have never heard of modern way of this religion, where they convert as you said halal to haram and so forth. Hey, this class is not gonna be called "Islam", but religous studies, where all religions are studied. Hey man, in our schools they offer physical education classes, but I don't think everybody becomes athletes after them, so don't worry about the atheits. Everybody chooses the way he/she wants.
I don't see anything related to bribery in our topic. We are gonna build (state) what we intend and are capable of.
Listen, Lucky, I was very disappointed by your questions, they are full of sarcasm and mislead. You know the exact answers and I think you're just moving the topic somewhere else. Just cool down, no, I am for real, just cool down. I hope you will understand me right. I'd be glad to answer all your "serious" questions, but not these.
Have a good weekend.

[Lucky]

Assalamu alaykum,Peace,Mir to everybody.
Abdul thank you for your answer and comments.I'll try to cool down.
Thanks to all other readers for being patient with me.I am glad by you all.Salomat bolingizlar,eng asosiysi,o'qishlarda omad.Happy weekend everybody.I hope I won't miss the party this evening as I did miss last week.(yu know what I am talkin about)

[Jaber]

Assalauma Aleikum
Dear brothers, I'm very proud for this web site, I'm muslim "alham dullilla", I want to say for all brothers keep practice in Islam and teach other brothers who doesn't know about Islam and How to pray.

From Oman Jaber, <jaber98@hotmail.com>

[Vatandosh]

Salomlar,
Lucky ni fikrlariga qo'shilaman. Avvalo, (hadisga asosan) agar bir kishi ikkinchi kishini 'kofir' desa, ulardan biri albatta kofir bo'ladi. kofir deb atalgan kishi haqiqatda kofir bo'lmasa, shunday degan kishi kofirga aylanadi.
ko'rilayotgan choralar xususida ham qo'shilaman. ayniqsa Afgoniston bilan qo'shniligimiz, va o'z navbatida Afgoniston Pokistondagi ba'zi o'qimlarning ta'siri o'stidaligi bir tomonda. va ikkinchi tomondan, butun islom halqlari Imom Bukhoriyning zaminini yana Islom zaminiga aylantirish fikriga moyil. shuning uchun biz kerakli ehtioyotkorlik choralarini korishimiz kerak. lekin, bu yo'ldagi bir kamchilik, agar presidentimiz "do'ppisini olib kel" desa pastdagilar kallasini olib kelishi hech gap emas.
bir qiziq fakt, ma'lumki islomiy oq'imlar asosan talabalarni ta'sir ostiga harakat qilishadi, ayniqsa iqtidorlilarini. shu erda presidentimiz bir yaxshi o'yin korsatdiki, iqtidorli talabalarni bilimga va yangilikka chanqoq miyyalari va energiyalarini ham mamlakatning ham shu paytdagi siyosatning foydasi uchun o'zlarining "UMID" fondlarini ochdilar. natijada mamlakatdagi eng iqtidorli yoshlar AQSH yoki shu kabi diyorlarga borib ilm olib kelish ishtiyoqida. va UMID chilar president qadrlashadi va unga qarchi chiqishmaydi. qolgan iqtidorli yoshlarning aqli shu dasturga tayyorlanib undan o'tish bilan band.
Islom akaning bu yurishlari siyosiy jihatdan chiroyli bo'lgan. gap bolishi mumkin emas :) nice move.
o'z navbatida biz ham savob olib turgan bo'lsak ajab emas. chunki hadisga asosan "Ilmni, Hitoyda bo'lsa ham borib egallang". no, mi chut' promazali i popali v ameriku. no dumayu toje nichego. j/k.
jazaka Allahu khoyron, brothers