Bizlarga a'lochi kerakmi yoki "ikkichi"?

[fox]

Mana, 2 oydirki bizning universitetda (va nafaqat bizning) talabalarga "nayezd" boshlandi. MinVUZ tarafdan tushgan savol: "nega a'lochilar kopayib ketti? (bartaraf etilsin)". Endi har qanday fandan baho olmaylik, oqituvchilar "Uzr, bolla, bizla kafedrada gap eshitvommiza. Baland bal qoyomimiza" deyishadi. Yaqinda informatikadan practika imtihoni buldi. Ja'mi 15 ball. Ko'p talabalar birorta hatosiz bajardi. Hatto oqituvchi ham hato topa olmadi. Baribir kimga 13, kimga 14 qoydi. Yana osha "kafedradan buyruq"....
Hosh, bizlarga a'lochi kerakmi, yoki "ikkichi"? Shuni hech tushuna olmayapman. "Ikki" olsang - haydalasan. "Uch" olsang - qarzdor. "To'rt" olsang - birinchidan dekan sokadi (hudoga shukur, dekanimiz zor odam), ikkinchidan - "qizil diplom" va ozim tolagan kontrakt pulidan faqt "4" bahoga stipendiya olaman.
Talabalar orasida norozilik...Hosh, nima qilish kerak? MinVUZ'ni maqsadini aniq tushunmadim, lekin talabalar allaqachon topib qoyishkan javobini - "qanchalik 5 kam bolsa, MinVUZ'ga oshanchalik kop qoladi". Bu qanchalik tog'ri bilmadimu, lekin omma o'ylagan narsa, ozingiz bilasiz...

Keyin, bit faylasuf "professor"imiz bir fikr tashlabdilar - "Talaba 100% olishi mumkin emas! Bu talaba o'z oqituvchisidan yahshi biladi degani ku!". Mda...profesormisan, professor de. Man osha majlisda bo'lganimda javob berardim: "A 'reyting sistemasi' oylab topildiku. Har bir dars, har bir imtihonga bal ajratilgan. Osha balni yig'adi talaba. Keyin, talaba osha 100%'ni oqituvchining bilimiga nisbatan emas, otiladigan kursga nisbatan oladi"...
Javobilani kutaman.


(Kulmela agar hato bolsa. To'la Ozbekcha yozish/gapirishni organvomman, boshqa tildagi sozlani aralashtirmiy) ;)

[Домла]

Идиотизм какой-то!

[elDoraDo]

bu narsani bizga o'tgan yili aytishgan edi, shunga, boshida kuldik ham, keyin kurashdik ham, endi oddiygina qarab ham o'tiribmiz... no hali beri to'htamidiganga o'hshdi... umuman olganda bizada ancha yaxshilanib borvotti - ko'z temasin, o'qisa qo'yvotti, daje o'qimasayam qo'yvotti. xixi

yashasin o'qish

[bomj]

hehe, mne kajetsya eto ustnyy prikaz minfina po sokrasheniyu rasxodov na prosvesheniye. ved' chem men'she otlichnikov, tem men'she rasxodov (ili doxodov, v sluchaye s kontraktnikami).


.................................................. .......................................

[fox]

Nega bizada kontrak uchun tolgangan pullarni qayerga sarf qilinishini korsatilmidi? Masalan AQSh'da Tuituion, Books, Board, Insurance, etc. A bizadachi? Bizada hech bomasa stipendiya uchun ketadigan pul miqdorini belgilab berishsin. Ahir hozirgi sistema bo'yicha, agar talab 3 yoki 4'ni stipendiyasini olsa, qoldig'i "qopketadi"... Ajratib qoyilsa, bu yilgi qoldiq narigi yilga qolishi kerak. Hmm...

[Freestyler]

Napiminayet basnu Krilova pro obezyanu (mortishku po-moyemu), kotoraya kupila sebe dujinu par ochkov i ne znala kak i kuda ih nadet'.

Voobshe, sistema ocenok doljna bit' konechno je spravedlivoy. No ne tol'ko:

Vo-pervih, ona doljna pooshryat'. Yesli polovina ili vbol'she studentov poluchayut 100% po ekzamenam, eto znachit, chto sistema ocenok ochen' shedra. Ili je programma ne dostatochno slojna i sleduyet yeyo usovershenstvovat'

Vo-vtorih, ona doljna gradirovat' studentov. Vryad li mojno uznat', kto v gruppe na samom dele pihtel i sidel nad knigami, kogda opyat'-taki bolee 50% poluchayut 100%-nie bali. Resheniye opyat'-taki doljno bit' takim je kak i v pervom sluchaye - uslojneniye programmi i ekzamenov takim obrazom, chtobi rassev ocenok napominal Normal Distribution function (Bell-Shaped Curve) (zabil kak po-russki).

Problema ochevidno opyat' v tom, kak nashi "obezyani" vsyo eto interpretirovali. MinVUZ tolkom ne obyasnil, s kakoy celyu nujno, chtobi ocenki bili raznimi, so srednim balom i medianoy konechno je nije hotya 90%-noy ocenki (kak v lubom normal'nom VUZe zarubejom), ne govorya uje o tom, chto dlya etogo nujno sdelat'.

Nu i nashi prepodi toje kak osli - ne luchshe - sami dodumat'sya ne mogut. I chisto radi protokola vinujdeni "risovat'" ocenki pod strahom "kak-bi mne ne vletelo ot MinVUZa"

Dlya zametki: v Anglii, 80-90% vseh ocenok padayut v diapazon on 55-70%. Poluchivshih na ekzamenah vishe 85% mojno smelo pripisivat' k geniyam. A, kak izvestno, takiye vstrechayutsya ochen' redko. (Hotya, sredi tochnih nauk, sredniy bal neskol'ko vishe, chem v social'nih naukah)

[fox]

Tak, vpolne soglasen s toboy, Freestyler. Hotelos' bi chtob eto ponyali nash MinVUZ i "osli prepodi", kotoriye vse delayut na pokazuhu, chtob ponravitsya. No ti ne dal mneniye o raspredelenii finansov. Raz ya polcuhayu "troyku", to moi ostavshiye den'gi doljni perehodit na schet MinVUZa ili ostavatsya dlya sled goda?

[Mikel]

Bilmadimu, silarning gaplaringda ham jon bor. Nima qilamiz, KURASHAMIZ!!!!

[BOBOY]

hmmm bizanikiladan kutsa boladi. kurashamiz? kim bilan kurashmoqchisilar? a tak o'zila bilasla baribir foyda yoq

chechen

[Tank]

Esli chestno podvoh v tom chto nashi chinovniki i (rectora ,dekani, zavkafedri) lubat perevipolnat svai obezatelstva. Navernaka MinVuz bil osholomlen tem faktami chto za poslednie 3 goda chislo otlichnikov i krasnix deplomov vazvroslo v 20 raz. Nekomy ne sekret kakim obrazom. Iz sobstenogo opita mogy skzat chto ya zakonchil TGTU (management) v 2000 gody s krasnim diplomom no po mimo mena eshe 6 chelovek s moei toliko gruppi zakonchili na krasni diplom uchitivau chto toliko 2 studenta deistvitelno uchilis otlichno, a ostalnie 4 pomoemy y nix daje 4 nebilo, no oni poluchili krasni diplom. Kak oni etogo dabilis vi sami prekrasno znaete.


P.C v dani moment MBA student in Was DC. (hehe), interesno v usa u kajdogo proffesora svoya grade- sistema. Kajdi professor viberaet luchyu sistemy dla svoego predmeta.

[mikel]

Qanaqa qib kurashardik?
Keyin aytaman....(o'zim bilib olay)

[diplomat]

fox,
pozdravlyayu s horoshoy temoy !
it is very frustrating...I lived the same thing last year...

Feestyler,
your are giving very good opinions...well done...

Tank,
You gave the good reason....that's why MinVuz maybe did that....but as Freestyler call our "osyol" profs acting like real donkeys(I mean those who do so)...even if they give lower grade they shouldn't reason the order of the MinVuz...

Anyway....IT BOLUR ESHSHAK BOLUR ASLO BO'LMAZ ODAMI...degan edi Alsiher Navoi...

Fox if you are really consulted with this issue...print out this whole forum and send to the Head of the MinVUZ...our start a petition....well believe me minister is not as dumb as some of those professors....

[bomj]

diplomat, ty chto dumayesh etot ministr dumayet o studentah ??? hehe, pervym delom on dumayet o svoyom karmane, i na etot forum i na nashi mneniya ko'ndalangiga qo'ygan! ty yemu luchshe napishi project o tom, kak bol'she i effektivney sdirat' den'gi s VUZov. on kak i vse nashi chinovniki delayet vsyo, chtoby oblegchit sebe jizn', t.e. "usovershenstvovat' " mehanizm sdiraniya deneg s byudjetnyh organizatsiy.

[diplomat]

nu i nu,

eto tvoy STEREOTIP govorit :-)
anyway nado probovat'...a esli tak i hodit' to nicho nikogda i ne budit'...

anyway peace out...

[$Domla]

$$$ bulsa buni ham ilojini topishadi :(((((((

[bomj]

diplomat (Apr 27, 2002 23:29):
nu i nu,

eto tvoy STEREOTIP govorit :-)
anyway nado probovat'...a esli tak i hodit' to nicho nikogda i ne budit'...

anyway peace out...


eee, ula, eti nashi velikiye ministry ne znayut chto tvoritsya u nih tam vnizu chto li ? oni prekrasno osvedomleny, oni ved' sami kogda-to rabotali prostymi slujashimi, ne s neba ved' upali i poetomu znayut kak rabotayet eta vsya tupaya sistema. vot tak vot! a ih bezrazlichnost' na slojivshuyusya situatsiyu mojno ob'yasnit' ih EGOIZMOM, oni tol'ko i dumayut kak obokrast' mnogostradal'nyy gosbudget, kotoryy formiruyetsya pryamo i kosvenno za schyot chasti dohodov NARODA! i poluchayetsya, chto yakoby pravitel'stvo, kotoroye doljno predlagat' sotsial'nyye uslugi naseleniyu za schyot pereraspredeleniya dohodov, na samom dele zanimayetsya vorovstvom! v chastnosti, ya schitayu, chto MINVUZ zanimayetsya tol'ko vydachey dvuh stranichnyh "bumajek" s tvyordoy oblojkoy, a ne vypuskom vysokokvalifitsirovannoy rabochey sily. eto nazyvayetsya KO'ZBO'YAMACHILIK!

[umaus]

Ya udivlyayus' nad odnim... Vse mi tut po tipu takie umnie.. sidim v forume i obsujdaem ministerstvo.. zakoni.. presidentov.. i td... Da!! Ya i vse vi znaete chto proishodit i KAK vsyo prosihodit.. vzaytki.. korupziya.. s samogo nachala mi tolko i govorim ob odnom i tom je...kak vsyo ploho u nas... horosh nyt'

Tak esli vi znaete v chem delo..( i ne tolko vi znaete kak i chto proishodit) tak davaite je luchshe naidite vihod iz etogo polojeniya? ved' vi takie umnie i znaete vsyo.. ka ministr dumaet.. che on znaet i che on neznaet... a vam slabo naprechsya i podumat o reshenii etih voprosov...
ye ne govoroyu chtob vi reshili eto v odin den' ili je mesyaz. it might take a lot of time.. You better state the facts and discuss possible solutions.. instead of trying to sound smart and state the same thing over and over everytime...
Right now i do have SOME ideas of how and what can be done.. but its is difficult to disscuss that here.. cause there are so many details to it. However i am sure I and all others would LOVE more to disscuss the solutions you came up with!!
Well... i hope the next time i will see something like

- Here is the problem..... and here what i think can be done....

a little question for Tank

"ya zakonchil TGTU (management) v 2000 gody s krasnim diplomom no po mimo mena eshe 6 chelovek s moei toliko gruppi zakonchili na krasni diplom uchitivau chto toliko 2 studenta deistvitelno uchilis otlichno, a ostalnie 4 pomoemy y nix daje 4 nebilo, no oni poluchili krasni diplom"
- Tak v chislo kakih studentov ti vpadaesh? v chislo 2uh kotorie deisttvitelno uchilis otlichno ili teh 4eh?? ;) :))

Wish all'ya LUCK

OMAD

[Tank]

hi folks, Eto konechno vse interesno, kerumpirovanie chinovniki, "tupaya sistema", bilo ochen mnogo interesni dovodov i rasujdeni. Ya bi hatel toliko podmetit odno neskoliko faktorof:
1) 90% prepodovatelei v VYZax jivyt toliko tem chto beryt vzatki (eto ne sekret), pochemy oni beryt vzatki (toje ne secret) nineshnaya economicheskaya sistuaciya talkaet ix na etot shag, sledovatelno vse uperaetsa v economicu. Tak-kak mahom odnoi ruki economicheskyu situaciu ne ezmenit i ety problemy sledovatelno tak prosto ne reshit. A to chto Minvuz pitaetsa vsakimi slabami shagami preostanovit ety problemy tipa (sokratit chislo otlichnikov, sozdali balovuy sistemy, potom reshili chto dekanat budet podshitivat bali i vivodit ochenki ( toest koroche hateli sozdat sistemy Separation duties ), viva uzbechiliga plan ne srabotal.
Ya bi hotel podmetit chto bi ne gavarili, stydent katori uchitsa horosho ne kogda ne ob'ekto s kotorogo mojna "snat" dengi. It's all up to you student.

A navapros k kakomy chisly stydentov ya otnasilsa? K tem dvum. (hehe).

[buhorogi]

I think MinVUZ has a point in this policy.
Of course if more than 20% of the class are ALOCHI, then there is no point in distinguishing the students as Alochi and Alochimas, BUT the way it is being done is not correct.
Yani agar domla imtihon utkassayu 5 oganlarga 4 quysa unda 5 ga yozib 4 ogan student 5 ogan studentdan qaysi joyi bilan kam? How can a professor decide who is better if say, two students gave exactly same answers.
In such case the bests solution seems to be as somebody proposed Normal Distribution Method.
But I dont think it is easy to teach all the lecturers and teachers in Uzbekistan what Normal Distribution is. I remember when I was the first year student in Narhoz, Professors did not feel comfortable with the newly implemented Reyting thing.
There will be a lot of missunderstanding in this case too. Another point is that it is very costly to train all the lecturers and teachers in Uzb.
So what? Hmmm...
So far I don't have anything to offer.

I can tell you my story:
Last year I graduated Malaziyskiy fakultet at TSTU, and was expecting to get Qizil Diplom. Kakovo bilo moyo udivleniye poluchit obichniy diplom. I had the average of 92 from 100 and very few 4s. What the secretary told me is that First they reported around 20 or something Krasniy diploms and Nachalstvo was very angry with this number. So they decreased this number to 3 or something.
I met with Dean, Prorektor and others.
Begal neskolko dney za etim diplomom i v kontse kontsov poluchil Krasniy. Chyort!!! On takoy je kak i drugiye diplomi tolko odnoy strochkoy bolshe: Imtiyozli-With Honors, and that s all!!!
Anyway, at least ya dobilsa etogo.
So ne sdavaytes!!!
Cheers,

buhorogi

[Khamlo]

Vse prosto. Mnogo pyaterok govorit o tom, shto prepodi sami reshaut vse na mestah. I sootvetstvenno delyatsya tolko s temi kto na stupenku vishe. A kogda u nas bolshe dvoeshnikov, tut uje problemu reshaut tolstie dyadi sverhu. Prosto (naverno) v Minvuze khotyat shtobi delilis'.
A tak bedlam odin.

[fox]

diplomat: be sure, i'll send it. just try to keep along the problem. but i'll have to cut some phrases. i'm not sure the minister will like them :)

umaus: yeah, corruption, prostitution, etc were everywhere. but who is to fight against it? us! i live in this country, i live in this city and i want my life to be safe, my education be stronger. and i'm going to fight. in legal ways of course. striking never helps. just find the reasons, file it and you'll got your score.

[Tank]

Fox good luck then!

[umaus]

Fox - I am with you brother :))

Count me in ;)

OMAD... Good luck to all who have exams

[diplomato]

fox, dude go for it, if you need my signiture I will scan it and send :-) I am jocking :-)

Well, fox, a little advice, if you think that will take much of your time and may couse you some troubles, just take it easy...but if you think you have some time for it and it is not gonna be bad...Go for it...

just like Uma I am with you :-)

Best Luck !

[tokiec]

viterli sopli, perestali nit', vishe nos! podtyanut' shtani!

a kto vinovat?

utopit' vseh v kritike!

tokiec


P.S. sor'ki, chto ne v temu :p

[finally i got my MBA]

bizaga alochiyam ikkichiyam keremas, ortacha baho , yani 4 dan past, 3 dan sal yukori bahochilar kere, dumbass, butheadlar kere, ertaga qoy podasini etaklagandek etaklashga poda kere, u ni kil desa kiladigan, buni kil desa kiladigan mankurtlar kere, ertaga bittasi iqtidori tufayli kotariladigan bolsa, mandan otib ketvosanmi deb boshkasi oyogidan tortib koladiganlar kere, Surhondaryoda qoshma korhona ochilibdi deb Halk Sozini cover pagida "olamshumul" makola chiksa, 4 kollab chapak chaladiganlar kere, tinchgina ertalab Assalom Uzbekiston, kechasi Ahborotni korib uhlidiganlar kere, suv toshsa manga nima deydigan beg'amlar kere va hokazo...

Bomasa nima uchun oz bilimi orkali hakikiy 5 ni oladigan bolaga osha 5 koyilmasligi kere ekan?? Hatto asrdan-asrga otib kevotgan makolni ham buzishvotti : "oshing halol bolsa, kochada ich" hehe

peace, endi dolzarb mavzuga otamiza:
kecha Texas Rangers Detroitni 2:0 ga yutvotganda uhlab kopman skay, lekin hisob ozgarmabdi shekilli,

yulduz Usmonovani koshikidan:

oynagani qoymaslar,
bahtini korolmaslar.

[Chalpak]

to MBer (yengi termin, o'zim to'qidim) -uahahaaaaaa... yomon emas, no esddan chiqmasin, mana shu ahvolga ruhab tayyor turmase uzoq borsa bir haftadan kelishin kutilmoqda a bu tomonlarga

mani fikrim: boshida bitta o'qib, judayam tipichniy, i primitiv enough bo'lgani uhcun yozgim kelmagandi hozir esa maslahat bermoqchiman

Fox, og'ayni, @*ini yedirvorishadi, (uzr bolla no so'kvordim), mana iki yildan beri kurashaman s pontom, natijasi, institutdan yana haydalvomman. heheh 4 martamiye ,. mlya daje hisobda adashib ketdim... no mojet sanda o'hshar, har holda UWEDd da hamma ham zakon o'qimidku, bizada bir marta zakon suqsen o'zini suqib qo'yishadi. hehe uje privyk-e, mlyaa....
ladno omad, a tak, bu degani - man chekindim degani emas, holasam ham jim turomasam kere bu yog'iga...

Yordamga shay, Chalpak
Tanimaganalr uchun elDoraDo

[VARATAR']

iaxaaaaaaaa
chalpak maymunjon terib qoygin borishimga, lol

a tak bir hafta emas, sanokli kunlar koldi, gaga

Butun Toshkentni aeroportga yigib cikkin, Oriyat Dono Aeroportdan live efir oborsin, waxxaxaxaxaxaxaa

reys dannilarini keyinrok yuboraman, hozircha tayyorgarlik avjiga chikar,

davay peace

Maria tomosha kilaman deb TV korib otirgan uzbek ayolini gazda yoqiglik qoldirilgan skvorodkasida kuyib burishib borayotgan chalpak ahvoli misoli Texas is in my mind, waxaxxaa, koroche chunmokchi bosalarin nima deganimni, obrashaytes,

[elDoraDo]

hehe, nime dovdiravossan, mlyaaaa
etgancha sanga tel qigandim, mlya tankkayam qildim, ahmmenga qib chiqdim, iprisqiga o'hshab avtootvetchik qo'yib qo'ygan ekansan, mlya gapirmasdan qo'p qo'ydim... a tak kevur, sani aerportdan chiqishingga garov o'ynimiza, man sani kamida 2 soatda chiqishingga tikvomman... parod qima...


etgancha bugun uyingga tel qilgandim, mlya uken oldi, so'rasam sani qachon kelishini, mlya tomi ketib qoli deb "hali bor, akam hali imtihonlarini topshirishlari kere" didi,,, uahahahah deb rosa qottim, mayli hozir yana bir qilichi

[VARATAR']

hey lox bolma, sikaman yana bir marta kisen, please dude, do not call ok?
appreciate it, get a life now, esli che u avtootvetchik emas, the phone you reached is no more in service or disconnected degandur, LOL, davay peace.
holasen yengi telefonimni beraman, jeje

[on_duty]

bakhty, 129.... IP hapa ku. flightlar bilan charchamadinmi, finally i got my mba degan joyda birinchi paragraf yoqdi, buni halq sozi va yulduzcha gazetasida maqola qilib chiqarish kere :)

[VARATAR']

rahmat okam, tanimagan bolsam ham rahmat :)
flightlar security hapa qimaganini hisobga omasak, yahshi otti (vrode basharam arabga ohshamidi, hehe),
oziz kalesiz? on_dutyda charchamasdan yuribsizmi?

esli che chikarin Yulduzchada, boshimiza osmonga etadi, resumega bitta paragraph qoshiladi, hehe

tinchlik bolsin uyimizada,

bakhty.

[on_duty]

yoshsande, okeni tanimadinmi, potstdaman prosto choyhonaga kiromyapman, msn ham hapa, shetta chat qililu, qalesan?

[VARATAR']

hehe, uzr hint berosh kere edide tanish uchun :)
a tak kale ozingayam?

omad,
Toshkentga yakinda manam, agar uje ketib bomagan bolsam, hehe

baha

[on_duty]

rahmat manam yurippan osiltiriib, bugun uzun Sunday ekan, havo go'zal, lekin kochaga chiqomiman, forumda vaqt oldirish bilan ovoraman.. hozir qattasan? sherlock holmes va dr watson akalani ovora qimi qoyoqoli
hintga keladigan bosak, hmm, hintni nima qilasan, sheff okenman, xexe

priyom

[VARATAR']

hmm, what da **** are you doing in tashkent dude???
tinchlikmi? okish tugadimi?
che uje i rabotayesh chtoli, hehe,

a tak umidikni kordinmi? chikkandur kizil shelkli kostumini elkasiga tashab, hehe

a tak peace,

man uhladim,

pi pi pi, uzildi internet :)

[on_duty]

lol, esin joyidami, Angliyadaman chudik. erta ku hali yotishga? bopti davay, yahshi yotib tur

konez svyazi

[VARATAR']

it is ****ing 7:00 am here, hehe

a che IP 195? again dubl 2: what da **** are you doing there dude???

[on_duty]

wtf, not all 195 s are Uzb lame, kechasi bilan uhlami chiqdinmi lol, jinnisande..

fox good topic a tak dude

peace

[elDoraDo']

uahahahahahaaa. dumbl tentesan-de uahahahaha
avtootvetchikmi yoki boshqasi, san borginda uzbekistonlik operator service dagi qizlarga o'rgatgin. hehe ko'zi uchib turibdi...

a tak 195 ip qichu narsa ekanmi. uahahahahahaha toshkent mush uahahahahaa upale, dumaladim. qichu chat chiqdi a tak rhamta, omadlar zafarlar, yana nimedi, mlya literature dan o'rganib olgan edim... a bo'ldi :
omadlar zafarlar salomlar (mlya daje efirdayam etvomman, xixi)

p.s. a tak uzr, uyindagilarga etib bo'ldim...

[VARATAR']

195 at least is not UK's
dubl 3: Whatta **** are you doing there dude???

eldorado: san tipirchilami jim otirgin, bomasa kislorodini kesib qoyaman, lol

yengi prikol: ommaviylashtirish kere faqat, hamma joyda yozaman endi,

Tatil kunlari boshlanishi munosabati bilan siz bolalaringizni Talibanlarning oromgoh(lager)lariga yuborarmidingiz? yoki osha erda hordik chikarishlarini hohlarmidingiz? vse surildim.

[elDoraDo...]

tipirch... tipirch...

(bu - man tipirchilavomman)

bathi san viz tugaguncha USA da shataloq otmoqchimisan?