O'ZBEK QIZLAR TAQDIRI

[BOBOY]

Salom vatandoshlar

O'zbekistonda prostitutsiya faktlarga qaraganda juda
tez o'sayotgan ekan. yaqinda MOAYAD degan arab o'rtog'im etib berdi emiratda fohishalarni yarmidan ko'pi
o'zbek qizlar ekan sharmandalik. yana arzon ekan
blya balki o'zbekistonda fohishalar uchun o'lim jazosi chiqarish kerakdir.

[Fritz]

BOBOY,

Birinchidan, messagingizning sarlavhasida xato bor yani suz qoldirish. Man O'ZBEK qizlarini bu taqdirda yozib tashlamas edim, balki, "AYRIM farosatsiz qizlar taqdiri" deb yozish, man uylaman, boshqa ajoyib farosatli qizlarimiz uchun yaxshi bulardi.

Ikkinchidan, bu fohishar uchun o'lim jazosi chiqarishga, masalan aytsak, man "za" yoki "protiv" emasman(baribir). Bu erda mening nuqtayi nazarim shuki, Emiratgami yo boshqa gurga borayotgan fohishalarning farosati yo tarbiyasi umaman joyida emas va ularning ishi uz qo'lida bo'lib qolgan. Bu men uchun po''' va siz uchun ham po''' bo'lishi lozim deb o'ylayman. Ular o'z hayotini qanday ko'rishga qo'li etadi, shunday ko'rsin.

Qisqasi u uning hayoti, bu mening hayotim. :)

[pimp]

Shunaqa deysizlarku, lekin bitta savol tuqiladi.
Ularni shu yolga hayot majburlamayotgan ekanmi?
Menimcha toqlikka shohlik bolmasa kere har holda...

[Dila_NYC]

to:ALL OF YAA
PIMP BU GAPIZGA QO'SHILAMAN AGAR HAYOT OZBEKISTONDA YAHSHI BOLGANDA HECH KIM BU ISHLANI KILMASDI
MAN HOZIR USA DAMAN
BU ERDAYAM QANCHA OZBEK QIZI BUSA POCHTI 90%
FOYIZI SHU KABI HAROM ISHLA BILAN PUL TOPISHADI
MAN ULANI KORIN ACHINAMAN ESIZ HAYOTI
BUNING UCHUN uzbekistonda hayotni yahshilash kere
a tak olim jazosi bilan tohtatib bolmidi agar qorni och busa odammi lyuboy ishi kiladiii

[BOBOY]

fikraringiz uchun rahmat.yaqinda internetdan bir sahifa topdim o'zbekistonda 127ta organizatsiya bor ekan qizlarimizni chet ellarga turli hil yollar bilan olib chiqib fohishalik qildirishar ekan.ha ko'pchilik hollarda ularga yahshi ish vada qilishadi keyin passportini olib qoyib fohishalik qildirishadi,bazilar o'z hohishi bilan qiladi.
lekin baribir ko'pchilik hollarda bu hozirgi kundagi qiyinchiliklarga kelib taqaladi.

[BOBOY]

Fritz (Apr 22, 2002 20:59):
BOBOY,

Birinchidan, messagingizning sarlavhasida xato bor yani suz qoldirish. Man O'ZBEK qizlarini bu taqdirda yozib tashlamas edim, balki, "AYRIM farosatsiz qizlar taqdiri" deb yozish, man uylaman, boshqa ajoyib farosatli qizlarimiz uchun yaxshi bulardi.

Ikkinchidan, bu fohishar uchun o'lim jazosi chiqarishga, masalan aytsak, man "za" yoki "protiv" emasman(baribir). Bu erda mening nuqtayi nazarim shuki, Emiratgami yo boshqa gurga borayotgan fohishalarning farosati yo tarbiyasi umaman joyida emas va ularning ishi uz qo'lida bo'lib qolgan. Bu men uchun po''' va siz uchun ham po''' bo'lishi lozim deb o'ylayman. Ular o'z hayotini qanday ko'rishga qo'li etadi, shunday ko'rsin.

Qisqasi u uning hayoti, bu mening hayotim. :)

rahmat fritz
mani o'ylashimcha fikrizda jon bor man hamma qizlarni etvotganim yoq man shunaqa o'zbek qizlani bilaman yuzidan nur yog'iladi farishta qizlar.lekin hozir hayotga real qaraganda odob ahloq buzilib ketgan man ko'p martta ko'rganman 13 14 yoshli o'zbek qizlarni sigaret chakib so'kishishini. shu qizlani qorasi boshqa yahshi qizlarga yuqmasmikin?.
rahmat peace

[BOBOY]

pimp (Apr 23, 2002 01:41):
Shunaqa deysizlarku, lekin bitta savol tuqiladi.
Ularni shu yolga hayot majburlamayotgan ekanmi?
Menimcha toqlikka shohlik bolmasa kere har holda...

pimp tog'ri etgansiz bu hayot qiyinchiliklari bolsa kerak.
lekin to'qlikka shohlik qilib yurganlar ham ko'p.odob ahloqni buzilib ketishi ham katta tasir qiladi manimchal

[BOBOY]

Dila_NYC (Apr 23, 2002 18:35):
to:ALL OF YAA
PIMP BU GAPIZGA QO'SHILAMAN AGAR HAYOT OZBEKISTONDA YAHSHI BOLGANDA HECH KIM BU ISHLANI KILMASDI
MAN HOZIR USA DAMAN
BU ERDAYAM QANCHA OZBEK QIZI BUSA POCHTI 90%
FOYIZI SHU KABI HAROM ISHLA BILAN PUL TOPISHADI
MAN ULANI KORIN ACHINAMAN ESIZ HAYOTI
BUNING UCHUN uzbekistonda hayotni yahshilash kere
a tak olim jazosi bilan tohtatib bolmidi agar qorni och busa odammi lyuboy ishi kiladiii

RAHMAT o'lim jazosi jahl ustida yozilgan edi tog'ri tohtatib bo'lmidi.man ko'p fohishalar bilan gaplashganman tushuntirganman ayrimlari yig'lab boshqa qilmiman deb vada ham bergan lekin 3-4 kundan keyin o'sha ahvol.hozir nashvilledaman hudoga shukur bu erdi o'zbek qizlar halol pul topadi.bunaqa ishlar qilishmidi.

[Freestyler]

Predlagayu smertnuyu kazn' pravitel'stvu, kotoroye dovelo stranu do togo, chto daje celomudrenniye uzbechki vinujdeni idti na panel' dlya zarabotkov...

Freestyler (extremist) ;)

[UTA]

hmm, manimcha mamnaqa qilish kere:

uzbeklarda "isnod" degan tushuncha juda kotta orin tutadi, agarda osha qizlarni sudrab kelib, (chet ellardagisilarini qoyib turilik, oldin Uzbekistondagilarni hal qivolilik) mahhalasini oldida, kerak bolsa osha qizlarni ota-onasiga qoshib mahallasi oldida, ish joylarida gapirish kere (sharmanda qilish kere demoqchi edimu, qopol chiqsa kere dedim). Isnodga chidolirkanmi yoqmi?
Yana kim biladi deysiz.....

[Explanation]

i suggest to look in our backyard first: the last time i was in UZB, i realised how they (prostitutes) have exponentially increased in Tashkent. OK, let alone Tashkent, this number has dramaticly increased in the REGIONS as well, the reasons:

- the falling living standards;

- in regional cases: drug addicts are on the rise, they force their wifes, daughters to do anything to bring money home, + those poor have to spend to live;

prostitutes have always existed, as there is plenty of demand for them, there always exists supply - human nature, i can't suggest any solutions as how to
eliminate them, that's impossible,

[Fritz (to all above)]

To Explanation: That would be a good explanation for that all above's opinions.

Wherever you are in this world, there are always prostitutions. You won't be able to stop those females.

Raising a kind of girl depands on her parents.

[MR]

to Dila_NYC: A ya dumayu naoborot 90% uzbechek zarabativayut den'gi svoim trudom(hotya... prostitutki toje trudyatsa, no eto tebe ne stoit dumayu obyasnyat ;)).
to Uta: luchshe borotsa s prichinoy ;) Ti odnu nakajesh, a kak naschet gotovyashihsya pyati(gotovyashihsya by surroundings).
to Explanation: They always existed, u're right. But, the amount of them, and the reasons why they do it is not always same ;)
to Fritz: Ok, maybe u're right too. But, what if a girls parents are jailed or maybe died...What then??? And not counting addict parents, husbands etc.
to Boboy and Freestyler: Boboy horosho chto sam ponyal chto smertnaya kazn' nichego ne izmenit, no vot predlojenie Freestylera ochen' zamanchivoe, net? ;)

[BOBOY]

Freestyler (Apr 24, 2002 10:27):
Predlagayu smertnuyu kazn' pravitel'stvu, kotoroye dovelo stranu do togo, chto daje celomudrenniye uzbechki vinujdeni idti na panel' dlya zarabotkov...

Freestyler (extremist) ;)

ha fikriz tog'ri bizda chiroyli qiz ishga kirmoqchi bolsa ko'p hollarda,ha ayni ko'p hollarda boshlig'i bilan birga bolmasa ishlolmaydi.agar boshlig'i tanishi bolmasa.

[BOBOY]

UTA (Apr 24, 2002 11:05):
hmm, manimcha mamnaqa qilish kere:

uzbeklarda "isnod" degan tushuncha juda kotta orin tutadi, agarda osha qizlarni sudrab kelib, (chet ellardagisilarini qoyib turilik, oldin Uzbekistondagilarni hal qivolilik) mahhalasini oldida, kerak bolsa osha qizlarni ota-onasiga qoshib mahallasi oldida, ish joylarida gapirish kere (sharmanda qilish kere demoqchi edimu, qopol chiqsa kere dedim). Isnodga chidolirkanmi yoqmi?
Yana kim biladi deysiz.....

fikriz uchun rahmat. manimcha bu juda chuqur masala ularni orasida juda ko'pi aldanganlar,adashgan sodda qizlar,noilojlari qancha.toqlikka shohlik qilib bu yolga kirganlarni manimcha tohtatib bolmidi,chunki bu hil qizlar juda rasvo boladi.lekin adashgan,aldangan,noilojlarchi.

mani bitta narsa qiziqtiradi shu qizlar qanaqa qilib kirib qoladi? umirida bu ishni qilmagan qiz o'zidan o'zi borib bu ishga qo'l urmasa kerak.manimcha bunga 2 omil tasir qilsa kerak. 1 dugonasini tasiri: agar qizni dugonasi fohisha bolsa, ular bir bilan bilan darddosh bolsa,u qizni boshiga qiyinchilik tushsa, mani aminmanki uning dugonasi o'z yoliga boshlaydi.
2 tasir: qizni sevgilisi(eri) bilan bog'liq.bu ham katta tasir deb o'ylayman ko'p fohishalarni tarihini surishtirganimda ko'pchiligini eri qamoqda,narkaman,alkash yoki yigiti aldab ketgan. o'sha eri qamoqda bo'lgan qizni ham kimdir yoldan uradiku.
manimcha fohishalarni sharmanda qilish bilan tohtatib bo'lmaydi .QAYTANGA yarasiga tuz sepgan bolamiz.tog'risini etganda erkaklarni aybi ham katta.

ps: KASALNI TUZATISHDAN KO'RA UNI OLDINI OLGAN YAHSHI.
peace

[nancy]

I've been to US almost four years now, and I have not seen any uzbek prostitude yet. Ninety percent offends me, you might have seen one or two or lets say 10 of girls from uzbekistan, that is not 90 percent. Don't ever say that.

According to someone uzbek girls serving foregners deserve death, what about girls in Tashkent? I live in the center of Tashkent, and I've seen so many girls in the streets starting from evening. And you know what? They don't stay there for the rest of the night. And guess who picks them up? Highly respected uzbek men. I watched how many cars STOP BY them, and I am sure most of those men have families. Someone mentioned demand and supply above.

It does not depend on women or how parents bring their daughers up. Men are equally responsible for this. Besides, SOMEt of the prostitutes start with rape. After being raped, and because of our stupid mentality, they turn into prostitution.

Not once I was approached by a passing-by with an offer. I remember going with my cousin to a bus stop to get something, it was TWO minutes away from home, right down the street. And I remember being approached by 10 or 15 men saying something like "bordaj hotite?" (don't remember that word, and actually didn't know the meaning till after) and RUNNING back to the house, seeing two policemen few feet away and hearing them blurring "ishga chiqishdi" and approaching them and telling them not to insult us. Neither my cousin or me looked like hookers that day. Neither my cousin or me look like hookers at all. And I never go outside without my brother or boyfriend ever sinse, because I am scared to.

It's not just the girls trying to make some money yelling "soatiga o'n besh dollar" in the evening near Hotel Tata (area where I live). It's degrading society, it's my neighbour coming to his apartment with two hookers, it's those ugly moral-free men, and I think they should be castrated.

[nancy]

highly respected uzbek men=
middle class family men, ages from late fourties down to early twenties, who usually drive average cars starting from all versions of jiguli and ticos and nexias.

PS. This is what I've learned exclusively from my observations of the street where I live. It may not represent the whole situation of Tashkent or may differ from one district to another.

[Explanation]

Nancy,

thans for the input, that really lightens up the issue a bit more, as we certainly lacked insight from the other side of the problem.

to add to your story: a man who uses the service of prostitutes/hookers is not usually considered as crossing the line, whereas a woman sleeping with others is despised and insulted.

WOW, there is a treatment problem here, men and women are not equal in the society, in a family, is not that right?

well, in my opinion that depends again on the moral grounds on which an individual acts. watch out, there are men out there who fail to deliver on the trust they have been confided, who view women as sex tools, slaves that cater for their needs and satisfaction.

but, the problem we are addressing here is as much about the reasons behind the alarming rise in hooker numbers as about the men's behaviour towards women both on the street and inside a family.

keep coming, it's getting interesting

[Freeman]

hey uris qizla kere.5-6 ta.gruppa dlya turkey.striptiz show ili tansy.night club da ishlashadi.oyligi 600 dollar+yeb ichish +hotel+ishlagan kunlik pullarini prosenti uziga qoladi.delo seryoznoye.agar topilsa zur bulardi uzbek busayam buladi.lekin kuzlari qisqa bulish sharti va chiroyli bulishi kere. zainteresovanniye mani chatta kursin. seryoznoye delo lekin otvechayu.

endi masalani kundalangiga quysak.hayot ogir bup qoldi ,voy endi man 'bermasam' yasholmiman--- shunaqa buldi mi endi.ey kere busa ochtan ulasan. lekin haqiqi chinakam ahloq va tarbiyali bulip usgan busang bu ishlani qimisan ku.hamma gap ahloqni susayip ketishida.hijop kiyganlaga quysang sanga prostitutkala quyishadi.hayot shunaka.paradoks de. chidasalaring shu. tarbiya manaviyat umuman '0' . hijop kiyganlani ustidan kulasan,prostitutkalani maqtisan ,zur ekan deysan.yolgonmi. unda endi jim utirish kere. taqdir shu.charh aylanip aylanip kelaverarkan. washe gapirmalaring agar bu ishni bartaraf qilish uchin chin kungildan harakat qimidigan busalaring!!!!!

PS: atak anu dance gruppa masalasi seryozni ish..

[Fritz]

Nancy (Apr 24, 2002 22:57):
I've been to US almost four years now, and I have not seen any uzbek prostitude yet. Ninety percent offends me, you might have seen one or two or lets say 10 of girls from uzbekistan, that is not 90 percent. Don't ever say that.

Thank you for mentioning it. :)

[BOBOY]

NANCY rahmat fikriz uchun,yahshi o'zbek qizlarlar ham
ko'p hudoga shukur.

peace

[BOBOY]

freeman rahmat fikriz uchun, hijobli qizlani ustidan kulganlarni eshitganman lekin tog'risi ko'rmaganman.
omad

[mikel]

Salom!
Aytmoqchi boganim, fohishalik bilan shugullanuvchilarga ozimiz yordam beramizku. O'rtoqlarim koplari bu haqda yomon gapirishadi, ammo o'zlari hech bo'lmasa bir-ikki marta ularning mehmoni bolishgan....
Ikkinchidan, biz endi boshqacha davrda yashayapmiz. Milliy an'analar, urf-odatlar, qadriyatlar hohlasa-hohlamasa kapitalistik turmush tarziga ko'nika boradi. Hayot katta tushuncha, ayol kishining qiyinchiliklar hisobiga bunaqa ish qilishiga ishonmayman.
Menimcha, g'arbona qarashlar bizning o'z qarashlarimizni siqib chiqardi. Endi qizlar o'zlarini oila tayanchi, farzand tarbiyachisi sifatida ko'rishmaydi.
Ular hamma narsada erkaklar bilan teng, ammo bu anglab yetilgan tenglik emas, ko'r-ko'rona tenglikdir.
Gaplarim chalkashib ketdi....
Shunday qilib, hammasiga biz ERKAKLAR SABABchimiz!!!

[BOBOY]

mikel (Apr 25, 2002 18:12):
Salom!
Aytmoqchi boganim, fohishalik bilan shugullanuvchilarga ozimiz yordam beramizku. O'rtoqlarim koplari bu haqda yomon gapirishadi, ammo o'zlari hech bo'lmasa bir-ikki marta ularning mehmoni bolishgan....
Ikkinchidan, biz endi boshqacha davrda yashayapmiz. Milliy an'analar, urf-odatlar, qadriyatlar hohlasa-hohlamasa kapitalistik turmush tarziga ko'nika boradi. Hayot katta tushuncha, ayol kishining qiyinchiliklar hisobiga bunaqa ish qilishiga ishonmayman.
Menimcha, g'arbona qarashlar bizning o'z qarashlarimizni siqib chiqardi. Endi qizlar o'zlarini oila tayanchi, farzand tarbiyachisi sifatida ko'rishmaydi.
Ular hamma narsada erkaklar bilan teng, ammo bu anglab yetilgan tenglik emas, ko'r-ko'rona tenglikdir.
Gaplarim chalkashib ketdi....
Shunday qilib, hammasiga biz ERKAKLAR SABABchimiz!!!

salom mikel. etmoqchisizki bunga sabab WESTERNIZATION mundo o'ylab qaraganda qanaqadir manoda tog'ri.lekin 21 asrda yashavommiz degani bu urf odatlarimizni yoqotsak boladi degani emas manimcha
necha ming yillardan beri saqlanib kelayotgan urf odatlarimizdan birdaniga kapitalistik tuzumga o'ttik deb voz kechish aqlan tog'ri emas. ikkinchidan ayol kishini erkak kishi bilan teng huquqliligi bu manimcha tog'ri emas. tabiatan pul topish oilani boqish bu erkakni vazifasi. farzand tarbiyalash oila farovonligini taminlash ayolni vazifasi.etmoqchimanki oilani bir boshlig'i boladi.va u ham erkak kishi lekin bu degani ayolni kamsitish emas aksincha uni hurmat qilib iloji bo'sa yahshi gapirish kerak.
manyam boshim achib ketdi.
rahmat

[BOBOY]

SALOM DOSTLAR

yana bir narsada fikringizni bilishni hohlardim. O'ZBEKISTONDA prostitutsiyani o'sishida westernizatsiya(g'arblashish)ni tasiri kattaroqmi yoki turmush qiyinchiliklarinimi?

rahmat

[up2u]

Do you know that there aremore than 300 Gender organizations in Uzbekistan.Al what they do is helpto women and girls.
If you so much care about future of Uzbek girls you should start from their education and the traditions in Uzbek families to marry girls asap.
Am I wrong?

[Haqiqat sinmaydi!]

uzr, ne v temu bitta kichkingaina lirik pauza (reklamnaya pauza) :

shotta post qiganlarning nechi foizi soz ketayotgan odamlarning kimdir etgndek mehmoni bolgan? Faqat toqrisi, avliyo bolmasangiz kere? (umuman olganda gapirildi, yana hapa bop yurmela unaqalar bolmasa)

[Tank]

Dila_NYC (Apr 23, 2002 18:35):
to:ALL OF YAA
PIMP BU GAPIZGA QO'SHILAMAN AGAR HAYOT OZBEKISTONDA YAHSHI BOLGANDA HECH KIM BU ISHLANI KILMASDI
MAN HOZIR USA DAMAN
BU ERDAYAM QANCHA OZBEK QIZI BUSA POCHTI 90%
FOYIZI SHU KABI HAROM ISHLA BILAN PUL TOPISHADI
MAN ULANI KORIN ACHINAMAN ESIZ HAYOTI
BUNING UCHUN uzbekistonda hayotni yahshilash kere
a tak olim jazosi bilan tohtatib bolmidi agar qorni och busa odammi lyuboy ishi kiladiii

C'mon Dilya u said 90% bullshit! Where u get this facts?
Ne nado ydruchat facti i ne nado izlagat svai ide i misli lish na tex faktax chto kto-to kogdato zkazal!

[UZBEKKIZI]

first of all thanks nancy, i really admire your comments.

our dear uzbek men, thanks for your "interpretations" on uzbek kizlar. let me tell you my own opinions.

please, don't forget that men "support" uzbek women become prostitutes. yes, they do! i have heard many many stories; please be accurate with your opinions. don't blame only uzbek women - uzbek men are extremely responsible for this too. then, please start with men - with yourselves, stop looking at (uzbek) prostitues or at any beautiful uzbek women with hunger! please control yourselves! if uzbek men (very well educated and even intelligent/middle class men, etc.) don't "hire" prostitutes and fight against it, then hopefully you can see the results, if your uzbek women don't stop it, then you help them to stop it!

ps. qars ikki qo'ldan chiqadi, buni ham esingizdan chiqarmanglar. bu ishga yuzaki qarab, faqat uzbek ayollarini aybash bilan chekalanar ekansiz, freeman aytganidek bu mavzuga til tekkizmang! qo'lingizdan kelgan ishni qiling.


pps. each son born in an uzbek family should be brought up in a way that he respects women.

rahmat,
...

[astick]

kak nam vsem izvestno, prostitutsiya evlayetsa odnoy iz samih drevnih professiy, ona bila i vsegda budet, i ve znaete ne vsegda devushki vihodyat na panel iz za nujd, obichno etomu sposobstvuet psihologicheskiy factorov, 95Юvushek ispitavshih sexualnoe nasilie v detsve so storoni starshih stanovyatsya potensialnimi jritsami lubvi v dalneyshem.
eto moe lichnoe mnenie.

[UZBEKKIZI]

astick,

starshih? whom do you mean by that? men? women?
if you are talking about uzbek society then surely it is uzbek men or...??


thanks,
d.

[brigadir]

100% podderjivayu, and now I'm gonna hire only russian girls, I promise :) shutka, a tak devushka pravil'no govorit. Vse ot nas zavisit, a tak, ya ochen' horosho znayu chto imenno uzbechek, tadjichek, kirgiz etc.(koroche musulmanok) ochen' malo sredi takih devushek, i esli oni est, to eto ochen ochen neschastnie devushki, naprimer, u kogo mujya v tyurme, ili siroti :(( No, chto podelaesh... Mojno, tol'ko prosit u vsevishnego chto bi on nam prostil grehi
UZBEKKIZI (Apr 27, 2002 14:54):
first of all thanks nancy, i really admire your comments.

our dear uzbek men, thanks for your "interpretations" on uzbek kizlar. let me tell you my own opinions.

please, don't forget that men "support" uzbek women become prostitutes. yes, they do! i have heard many many stories; please be accurate with your opinions. don't blame only uzbek women - uzbek men are extremely responsible for this too. then, please start with men - with yourselves, stop looking at (uzbek) prostitues or at any beautiful uzbek women with hunger! please control yourselves! if uzbek men (very well educated and even intelligent/middle class men, etc.) don't "hire" prostitutes and fight against it, then hopefully you can see the results, if your uzbek women don't stop it, then you help them to stop it!

ps. qars ikki qo'ldan chiqadi, buni ham esingizdan chiqarmanglar. bu ishga yuzaki qarab, faqat uzbek ayollarini aybash bilan chekalanar ekansiz, freeman aytganidek bu mavzuga til tekkizmang! qo'lingizdan kelgan ishni qiling.


pps. each son born in an uzbek family should be brought up in a way that he respects women.

rahmat,
...

[BOBOY]

astick (Apr 27, 2002 15:29):
kak nam vsem izvestno, prostitutsiya evlayetsa odnoy iz samih drevnih professiy, ona bila i vsegda budet, i ve znaete ne vsegda devushki vihodyat na panel iz za nujd, obichno etomu sposobstvuet psihologicheskiy factorov, 95Юvushek ispitavshih sexualnoe nasilie v detsve so storoni starshih stanovyatsya potensialnimi jritsami lubvi v dalneyshem.
eto moe lichnoe mnenie.

salom Astik tog'ri prostitutsiyani 100% yoq qilib bo'lmaydi.lekin uni kamaytirish mumkin.
peace

[BOBOY]

UZBEKKIZI (Apr 27, 2002 14:54):
first of all thanks nancy, i really admire your comments.

our dear uzbek men, thanks for your "interpretations" on uzbek kizlar. let me tell you my own opinions.

please, don't forget that men "support" uzbek women become prostitutes. yes, they do! i have heard many many stories; please be accurate with your opinions. don't blame only uzbek women - uzbek men are extremely responsible for this too. then, please start with men - with yourselves, stop looking at (uzbek) prostitues or at any beautiful uzbek women with hunger! please control yourselves! if uzbek men (very well educated and even intelligent/middle class men, etc.) don't "hire" prostitutes and fight against it, then hopefully you can see the results, if your uzbek women don't stop it, then you help them to stop it!

ps. qars ikki qo'ldan chiqadi, buni ham esingizdan chiqarmanglar. bu ishga yuzaki qarab, faqat uzbek ayollarini aybash bilan chekalanar ekansiz, freeman aytganidek bu mavzuga til tekkizmang! qo'lingizdan kelgan ishni qiling.


pps. each son born in an uzbek family should be brought up in a way that he respects women.

rahmat,
...

Salom Dilya

man bunda faqat qizlani ayblavotganim yo'q yuqorida etib o'tganimde.bu qizlani shu yo'lga kirib ketishida erkaklarni aybi katta.agar ko'pchilik fohishalarni tarihini so'rasak ko'pchiligini sevgan yigiti aldab ketgan,eri narkoman,alkash. aytmoqchimanki ko'pchilik qizlani shunaqa bo'lib ketishiga erkaklar aybdor.Lekin to'qchilikka shohlik qilib yurgan qizlar ham kam emas a tak.

chechen

[sherzodR]

Wow, we sure have lots of problems in our socieaty, don't we?

Boshini o'rab yurgan o'zbek qizini O'zbekiston qonunlariga bo'ysinga holda hammani oldida sharmanda qilib ro'molini yechib olishdi (diniy kiyim mumkun emas ekan).

We can't live the life we think is right. We can't put on a garment we think is proper. We can't write a note before it's proof-read by "certain" individuals.

Tackle those issues before issuing a "death penalty" for prostitution.

Besides, the prostitution is an issue in every society, regardless of its prosperity level.

[UZBEKKIZI]

...Lekin to'qchilikka shohlik qilib yurgan qizlar ham kam emas a tak.

chechen[/quote]

Bu ham sir emas, ...lekin, chechen, nima uchun bu savolni avval erkaklardan--oz'laringizdan so'ramaysiz? (yoki, so'ramadingiz boshida?)

Ya'ni, "biz--erkaklar nega umr yo'ldoshlarimzdan tashqari yana boshqasi bilan "bo'lib ko'rish"ni hohlaymiz? Yoki bittasiga "to'ymaymiz"? deb.

Ayol zotini shunchalik pok iboli bo'lishini hohlar eknasizlar, avvalo hamma narsani o'zingizdan boshlashingiz kerak, menimcha. Men bu bilan ayollar bilganini qilib yuraversin deyayotganim ham yo'q.
Bir naqlni eslatib qo'ymoqchiman xolos: "Avval o'zingga boq, keyin nog'ora qoq."

Yana bir gap, "prostitutsya qadimlardan beri mavjud..." deganlarga aytib o'tmoqchiydim: fohishalarga ishqibozlarning soni kamaymas ekan, fohishalikning urug'i hech qachon qurimaydi...va yana bir fikr... fohishalik deganda menimcha faqatgina ayollarni emas erkaklarni (!) ham nazarda tutishimiz kerak.

ps. Har bir o'zgarish avvalo odamning ozidan boshlanishi kerak ...


rahmat,
--d.

[umaus]

Wow.. Interesting oppinions but a lot of them.. didnt have time to read all.. but...

To Nancy: sis u know i respect you BUT

without brith there is no death... same with that
Men often dont force women to prostitute..(i didnt say they dont) but most women choose that way because they think its the easiest way to earn money.
Saying that economic situtation is one of the leading factors to prostitution is correct, i would agree... BUT saying that men lead to prostitution is partially correct... Its those women who choose to do what they do!! And the most responsible for all that is the women themeselves!! So stop blaming men :)

To Dilya_NYC

PIMP BU GAPIZGA QO'SHILAMAN AGAR HAYOT OZBEKISTONDA YAHSHI BOLGANDA HECH KIM BU ISHLANI KILMASDI
MAN HOZIR USA DAMAN
BU ERDAYAM QANCHA OZBEK QIZI BUSA POCHTI 90%
FOYIZI SHU KABI HAROM ISHLA BILAN PUL TOPISHADI
MAN ULANI KORIN ACHINAMAN ESIZ HAYOTI
BUNING UCHUN uzbekistonda hayotni yahshilash kere
a tak olim jazosi bilan tohtatib bolmidi agar qorni och
busa odammi lyuboy ishi kiladiii
-----------------------------------------------------

You say that the zzbek living standards lead to prostitution and force the girls to prostitute...
But then you say that 90% of uzbek girls in US prostitute, which i dont agree with, but lets it is so...
Now :) tell me why do they prostitute here?:) ved' uroven' jizni tut namnogo luchshe :).. i ved' v US mojno zarabotat dengi na jizn' mnogimi drugimi putyami?
Tak chto what i am trying to say is that alll depends on the person himself... only weak individual can choose the easy way to earn money!!
I will also state.. that none of us (hopefully) are in their shoes...so god knows what led them to it... some may enjoy it... but i will agree that most are doing it.. because its an easy way to earn money... but i do not consider this as an excuse..

Ok i got to go :) sorry
Good Luck Girls ;)

[Pax]

UZBEKKIZI (Apr 27, 2002 14:54):
first of all thanks nancy, i really admire your comments.

our dear uzbek men, thanks for your "interpretations" on uzbek kizlar. let me tell you my own opinions.

please, don't forget that men "support" uzbek women become prostitutes. yes, they do! i have heard many many stories; please be accurate with your opinions. don't blame only uzbek women - uzbek men are extremely responsible for this too. then, please start with men - with yourselves, stop looking at (uzbek) prostitues or at any beautiful uzbek women with hunger! please control yourselves! if uzbek men (very well educated and even intelligent/middle class men, etc.) don't "hire" prostitutes and fight against it, then hopefully you can see the results, if your uzbek women don't stop it, then you help them to stop it!

ps. qars ikki qo'ldan chiqadi, buni ham esingizdan chiqarmanglar. bu ishga yuzaki qarab, faqat uzbek ayollarini aybash bilan chekalanar ekansiz, freeman aytganidek bu mavzuga til tekkizmang! qo'lingizdan kelgan ishni qiling.


pps. each son born in an uzbek family should be brought up in a way that he respects women.

rahmat,
...

Thanks for your vision of the problem

It seems that prostitution is subject to the supply-and-demand law in economics. You say, we men (some of us, I would rather say) look "at (uzbek) prostitues or at any beautiful uzbek women with hunger!", which is true!

If there wasn't demand for prostitutes their supply would dwindle.

But the opposite is also true:
If there were less prostitutes to seduce us, men, certainly prostitution would get smaller, as well.

So, to sum up:
if prostitution is the problem, then it is the responsibilty of both sexes.
That's what I think.

[Pax]

Umaus, you say:

Tak chto what i am trying to say is that alll depends on the person himself... only weak individual can choose the easy way to earn money!!

But I would I argue that NOT "all depends on person himself", which is not to say s/he is not responsibile for anything either.

In my opinion here, the persons free-will and the environment play a 50-50 role.

[jamshed]

Э, ман тушунмадим, жа галати гапла бувотти. Кизларнинг куча тили билан этганда "шиппак" булиб кетишида биринчи уринда эркаклар айбдор. Хаммасининг хам ё окаси ё отаси ё биронта бошка эркак кариндоши бор. Уладими эркакка ухшаб сал хушёр булиб турса? Мана ёз кевотти, яна бошланади, светофор кийимлани кийиб кучага чикиш. Нима, уйидан чикиб кетвотганда биронта уйдаги эркак сал кийимига караса хаки кетиб коладими? Наоборот, хаммага куз-куз килиши керак. Караларинг, мани хотиним(кизим, опам) канака чиройли!! Коматига битта кара! Лекин хаммаси яхши билади, агар узи кучага чикиб биронта шунака кийинвоган кизни курса, агар иложи булса албатта илакишади. Раз шунакаякан, пох боми шунаккиб кучага чикариб куйиб? Бекорга купни курган отахонла этишмиди, шайтон эт билан терини уртасида деб... Биринчи уринда хиббим эркаклар айбдор. Купайиб кетишди... Кизлар хам соответственно молодец. Ростданам ахлок расво буган. Хамма замонлада узбеклада оилани эркаги аёли ва кизи учун жавоб берган. Факат хозир уша нарса камайиб кетди. Качонки оилани эркаги узини киз махрамига жавоб берса, ушанда сал одам булади, бумаса бир тийин хамма гап. Агар осишга келадиган бусак, фохишани эмас, уни эркак махрамини осиш керак. Халиги жойидан... балки ушанда эркакларимиз сал эркакка ухшармиди. Бу кетиши буса якинда хамма ёкни а...си чикиб кетади.

[unanonymous]

hehe, another 3 exams to go, 2 has gone. Me 2: University 3.

[ISHONCH]

Freeman ,nima qivossan o'zi?Turkiyada sani qimoqchi bo'lgan ishini qiganlarga "Pezemek"diyishadi .O'zbeklardan pezemek chiqishi fohisha chiqishidan kattaroq ayip va uyat.

Biz Turkiyadagi o'zbeklar munaqa ishlarga aralashmasligini sandan so'raymiz.Bizni oramizdan munday inson chiqishi bizga katta qora dog' bo'ladi.

Ehtiyot bo'lgin,munday ish qilmoqchi bo'lgan vatandoshlarmizni ohiri hech bahayir bo'lmagan.Ko'rganimizdan aytyapmiz.

O'zbekistonimizni nomiga dog' tushurma.Tinch bo'l.

[buhorogi]

TGTU da uqirdim 3 kurs.
Obshaga da yashardim. Ushanda bir urtogim oldimga kelib: "Bir qiz bor, pulsiz qogan ekan, Uydan hich kim yordam bera olmas ekan, Bechora kecha mardikorlikka chiqib bittasining uyiga borib uyini tozalab beribdi, kir pirlarni yuvib, ovqat pishiribti, Ohirida uy egasi bir tiyin ham bermasdan chiqarvoribti. Bechoraning puli yoq. Qancah busa yordam berayapmiz ...." dedi.
Hozir betta yozilgan gaplarni uqib hayron buvoman.
Tugri, ahvol qiyin, odamlarning yeyishga puli yoq.
Lekin uylab kuringlar, kim shu ishlar bilan shugullanvotti? Shaharda yashaydigan qizlarimiz. Shunday masmi? Man hamma demayapman. Lekin agar usha qizlarni olsak manimcha 80 foizi shaharlik qizlar busa kerak. Qishloqda ahvol shaharlarimizdan ming marta qiyinroq ku. Ahir nimaga ular bu ishlar bilan shugullanmaydi? Demak bir narsa bor ki ularni ushlab turadi. Manimcha usha man bilgan qizni ham shu ushlab turgan. Bumasa Toshkentda, uydan aaancha uzoq. Agar qilaman desa hich kim ham bilmasdi. Demak qizlarimizning uzida gap. Albatta yana aytaman iqtisodiy ahvolimiz ning ham tasiri bor, lekin this is not the most important thing in this issue.

Again this is only my opinion

Buhorogi...

[uzbechka]

Э, ман тушунмадим, жа галати гапла бувотти. Кизларнинг куча тили билан этганда "шиппак" булиб кетишида биринчи уринда эркаклар айбдор. Хаммасининг хам ё окаси ё отаси ё биронта бошка эркак кариндоши бор. Уладими эркакка ухшаб сал хушёр булиб турса? Мана ёз кевотти, яна бошланади, светофор кийимлани кийиб кучага чикиш. Нима, уйидан чикиб кетвотганда биронта уйдаги эркак сал кийимига караса хаки кетиб коладими? Наоборот, хаммага куз-куз килиши керак. Караларинг, мани хотиним(кизим, опам) канака чиройли!! Коматига битта кара! Лекин хаммаси яхши билади, агар узи кучага чикиб биронта шунака кийинвоган кизни курса, агар иложи булса албатта илакишади. Раз шунакаякан, пох боми шунаккиб кучага чикариб куйиб? Бекорга купни курган отахонла этишмиди, шайтон эт билан терини уртасида деб... Биринчи уринда хиббим эркаклар айбдор. Купайиб кетишди... Кизлар хам соответственно молодец. Ростданам ахлок расво буган. Хамма замонлада узбеклада оилани эркаги аёли ва кизи учун жавоб берган. Факат хозир уша нарса камайиб кетди. Качонки оилани эркаги узини киз махрамига жавоб берса, ушанда сал одам булади, бумаса бир тийин хамма гап. Агар осишга келадиган бусак, фохишани эмас, уни эркак махрамини осиш керак. Халиги жойидан... балки ушанда эркакларимиз сал эркакка ухшармиди. Бу кетиши буса якинда хамма ёкни а...си чикиб кетади.

*****************************************

Juda ham tu'gri fikr yuritibsiz, molodec!!! Ha, albatta yuqorida keltirilgan sabablar ham barisi haqiqat. Shahsan uzim nomimdan mana shu sababni eng tu'grisi deb bilaman - 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Westernization ham sabab, standards of living ham, insonni uziga bog'liqligi ham va hokazo. Endi tasavvur qilinglar yuqoridagi sabablarning barisi bir vaqtda muammo bulib turibti. Buni faqatgina yoki kuch bilan yoki uqtirish, urgatish bilan ERKAKLAR qaytara oladi. Ikkinchisi eng effektivniy bu'ladi, zero ta'lim bilan har narsaga erishish mumkin. Lekin tinchlik uchun kuch ishlatish bazan yahshi oqibatlarga olib kelib natija beradi. Hullasi kalom Feodal bulsa ham akamdan aylanay!!! :) Usha vaqtda uzimcha burnimni jiyirsam ham, hozirda akam har kun kiyimimga boqib, yoqtirmasa almashtirishmni talab qilgani, umuman nazoratda qattiq bulgani uchun shukr keltiraman. Ha, menimcha mana shu muammoga yechim bula oladi. Chunki standards of living yahshi bulsa ham tu'likka shu'hlik bor (westernization), ochlik bulganda ham erkak kishi tayanch bula olishni bilishi kerak.

*******************************


Qishloqda ahvol shaharlarimizdan ming marta qiyinroq ku. Ahir nimaga ular bu ishlar bilan shugullanmaydi? Demak bir narsa bor ki ularni ushlab turadi.

********************

mana shu fikr ham juda tu'gri. Qishloqda va shaharda yashaydigan tog'amlarning orasida intizomga nisbatan bulgan farqi juda katta. Qishloqlik qizlarni bundan ushlab turadigan narsa avvaliga kuch bilan bu'ysunishgan bulsa ham, keyinchalik bu narsa uzlarining qadrlaydigan tushunchalariga aylanib qoladi. Keyinchalik albatta tushunishadi.

umuman olganda qiyin masala :( Hammaga ham insof bersin deb tugatmoqchi edim, biroq yana uylab qoldim : insofli qiz yurgan yulida chet el qushiqlari, kinolari, yigitlarning pichinglari, "gap otishlari", u'zga qizlarning kiyinish, gapirish stillariga boqar ekan niqob ostidagi usha "bahtga" erishgisi kelib qoladi; ularga madad buladigan inson kerak. Yetim bulib qolish haqida ham gapirilibti - qu'ysangizchi, masala aniq : usha yetimni ham kuchadan sudrab ketadigan yana usha erkaklar yoki erkaklar tomonidan "u'rgatilgan ayollar"

mayli, hammagayam insof bersin....

[CHECHEN]

rahmat hammelaga chiroyli fikrlar bildirilibdi.

BOBOY

[Pax]

ISHONCH (Apr 29, 2002 07:38):
Freeman ,nima qivossan o'zi?Turkiyada sani qimoqchi bo'lgan ishini qiganlarga "Pezemek"diyishadi .O'zbeklardan pezemek chiqishi fohisha chiqishidan kattaroq ayip va uyat.

Biz Turkiyadagi o'zbeklar munaqa ishlarga aralashmasligini sandan so'raymiz.Bizni oramizdan munday inson chiqishi bizga katta qora dog' bo'ladi.


Abi, bunlara Tuerkche'de, sizin dediginiz gibi "pezemek" degil de, "pezevenk" diyorlar galiba...??
Ne dersiniz?
;)

[Pax]

ISHONCH (Apr 29, 2002 07:38):
Freeman ,nima qivossan o'zi?Turkiyada sani qimoqchi bo'lgan ishini qiganlarga "Pezemek"diyishadi .O'zbeklardan pezemek chiqishi fohisha chiqishidan kattaroq ayip va uyat.

Biz Turkiyadagi o'zbeklar munaqa ishlarga aralashmasligini sandan so'raymiz.Bizni oramizdan munday inson chiqishi bizga katta qora dog' bo'ladi.


Abi, bunlara Tuerkche'de, sizin dediginiz gibi "pezemek" degil de, "pezevenk" diyorlar galiba...??
Ne dersiniz?
;)

[ISHONCH]

Rahmat,hatomizni tuzatganingiz uchun,
uzr boshqa
bu hatoni diqqatga olganlar agar bor bo'lsa

[umaus]

Salom again

"So, to sum up:
if prostitution is the problem, then it is the responsibilty of both sexes.
That's what I think"

I agree with that... i bet all will agree!!

"In my opinion here, the persons free-will and the environment play a 50-50 role."

I agree with that partially... Yes, the environment, society play a very big role. But still... in the end it's you who decides!!! You make the decision, no one else!! The only thing environment does is that it influences your decision, thats all...

GOOD LUCK ON UR EXAMS ALL'YA

[realist]

Pax-Amerikana,
Ishonch: U soz "pazavang"mi "mazvang"mi bu juda ham muhim emas. Bu yerda muhim bolgan narsa Turkiyada bu eng qattiq haqorat hisoblanadi. Yani birovni qattiq haqorat qilmoqchi bolishsa "Eh pazavang" deyishadi. Demak bu juda ham UYATLI ISH. Ozbekchada "Qoshmachi" sozi bunga mos keladi shekilli.
MAN MASALANING BOSHQA TOMONIGA FIKRLARINGNI QARATMOQCH EDIM. Albatta OZB. ning ichida ham bu ishlar boladi. Ammo stihiyali ravishda. Shahsan mening jigarimga borib tekkani, Ozb. tashqarisida "Qayerdansiz" savoliga "Ozbekistondan" desang, miyigida kulib, bir sarguzashtini aytishi, (ozbek yol bilan) yoki "korganini" aytishi. Bu haqiyqatan ozbekiston uchun yomon bolyapti. Oshancha mablag sarflab "Mustaqillik bayrami" qilamiz OZB ning obrosi uchun ammo...
Bu ishlarni tashkil qiladigan konkret odamlar malum. Man eshitgan edim, "Mama Tamara" mi shunga ohshagan otli armani ayol 100 atrofida (har hil millatlardan) ozbeistonlik ayollarni "boshqarib" chetga olib borar va olib kelar ekan. Bunga ohshagan "mama"lardan bir qancha bolsa kerak. Ahir bu "uyushgan jinoyat" bolmasdan nima? Shularni tohatishsa bolmaydimi? Bu qiyin ish emasku?
Nima deysizlar.
Rahmat.

[passing by]

ФОХИШАЛАРГА КИМ КАНДАЙ МУРУВВАТ КИЛАДИ?

(билса хазил, билмаса чин)

Узбекистонда булаётган саноксиз суд жараёнларини кузатар экансиз, улардаги ажабтовур хангомаларни куриб кулайинми ёки куяйинми дея хайрон булиб коласиз. Масалан, Куконлик мусулмонларнинг 23 кишилик гурухи устидан Тошкент вилоят судида утказилган махкама ишига бир назар солинг.

Жабрланувчи саналмишларнинг бири Курбонова О. исмли аёлнинг бераётган курсатмалари билан танишамиз:

"1991 йил 7 июнь куни тунги соат иккиларда Мурод исмли никохсиз турмуш уртогим билан ётган эдим, хонамга 3 йигит бостириб кирди ва мени Кукондаги "Урмон богига" олиб кетишди. У ерда Кахрамон ака мендан бузук юришни ташлашимни айтиб… отамни ва никохдаги эримни чакириб келиб… мени уларга бериб юборди".

Шу ва шунга ухшаш гаплардан сунг Узбекистоннинг "одил" суди белини махкам боглаб ишга тушиб кетди. Унинг максади шуки, узининг эри була туриб, хохлаган кишиси билан "никохсиз холатда ётаверадиган" аёлларнинг "хаккини" мусулмонлардан ундириб бермокчи! Бундай гамхурликни эшитиб таажжубдан ёка ушларсиз балки?! Аслида бу вокеадан бугунги хукмрон кимсаларнинг мусулмонликда энг огир гунохлардан бири хисобланадиган - зинонинг ва зинокорларнинг пушти панохи эканликлари яккол намоён булади. Аммо бундан кура бадтаррок пасткашлик хам бор бу уринда. У шундан иборатки, хукумат кишилари фохишаларга курсатаётган уз мехрибонликлари эвазига уларни хам уз "касби-корлари" билан хукумат сиёсатини мустахкамлаш йулидаги хизматга жалб килмокдалар. Ха, хукумат учун фарки йук, фохишами, угрими, мафиозими ким булса булар, ишкилиб мусулмонларга карши туриб берса булди.

Энди келинг, хаёлот дарёсига бир лахза шунгиб чикайлик. Фараз килинг, Курбоновани агар уша холатда Кахрамон Хамидовнинг олдига эмас, Убайдулла Мингбоевнинг хузурига етаклаб борилганда нима вокеа юз берган булар эди? У киши бу "жабрдийда" аёлга кандай мурувват курсатган булар эдилар? Балки етаклаб келган кишини хайдаб юбориб, у аёлнинг бошини силаб, узлари билан кабинетда олиб колармидилар…

хозирда бутун республика буйича Курбоновага ухшаганларнинг бозори кизиб кетган. Айникса Тошкент бу сохада хам хаммадан олдинда бормокда. Хар холда пойтахт пойтахт-да! Ана шундай бозорларнинг энг кайноги Республика Прокуратурасининг ёнгинасида жойлашган. Ушбу макола муаллифи шу сатрларни ёзаётиб беихтиёр "Кизик, Бош Прокурор каёкка караётибди экан-а?"-деб юборибман. Шунда ёнимдаги биродарим: "Каёкка буларди ѕ уша бозорга-да!"-деб жавоб берди.

Диндорларни катагон килиш бошланганидан буёгида республикада гиёхвандлик, наркобизнес, порахурлик ва фохишабозлик жадал суръатлар билан ривожлана бориб, узининг янги боскичига кутарилди. Диккатга сазовор нарса шуки, юкоридаги иллатлар хукумат тизими билан бир-бирига каттик богланган ва коришиб кетган холда яшамокда. Хамтовок ва хамтомокларнинг бари хозирда бир-бирларидан нихоятда мамнундирлар. Уларнинг вакилларидан бирининг дил сузлари мана бундай:

Судьяга саломлар фохишалардан,
Наша-ю, вино-ю, ок шишалардан!

Бир пайтлар сурилиб хор булган эдик,
Сиздайин гамхурга зор булган эдик.

Истиклол бизларга бозорлар берди,
Диндорларга катор мозорлар берди.

Бу дунё, у дунё бирга булайлик,
Улсак хам илоё бирга улайлик!

Хужа Насриддин Бухорий
Узбекистон

[umaus]

Mr Vegas - SHE'S A HO

Well if a gal a tek two man inna one night
Then we know she's a ho
If she a clean up di whola di neighborhood
Then we know she's a ho
If she a walk an a sell from hotel to hotel
We know she's a ho
If she a walk an a sell from hotel to hotel
We know she's a ho
If she a one night stand tek everybody man
Man a nutten dat caaw we dun know

Chorus
She's a ho She's a ho
Caan hide again cause everybody know
She's a ho She's a ho
Swear sey mi spat har pon di Jerry Springer show
She's a ho She's a ho
All a di youth inna di street know


Whey she do, boast bout how she get slim and trim
Loose twenty pound and naw go a gym
Legs easy fi open like clothes pin
Sleep wid bum, Bim dead and dem know wha kill him
Gal from yuh know yuh nuh shouty shouty
An yuh know sey yuh a nuh groupie
All rudies out deh do not be silly and put a rubber pan yuh willy

Chorus


Whey she do
Gwaan like she hot like she a earth angel
Know something whey dem a do yuh head swell
Man a line up a dem gate car dem a sell
The way dem a move trust me you coulda tell
Run through the mob dem and di cartel
Hear sey she sleep wid Bobby Castell
Di gal a rev out skettel worse Jezebel
How much man drown inna di well

Well if a gal tek whey har mumma husband
Then we know she's a ho
If a gal sleep wid har best fren man
Then di whola wi know she's a ho
Well if a gal easy fi pluck every man come wuk
Then we know she's a ho
Nuff a dem run outta luck end up wid stomach
An now de man naah mine di gut

Hehehe Enjoy :) Get the song :o :) :)

[PROKUROR]

passing by (May 01, 2002 14:54):
ФОХИШАЛАРГА КИМ КАНДАЙ МУРУВВАТ КИЛАДИ?

(билса хазил, билмаса чин)

Узбекистонда булаётган саноксиз суд жараёнларини кузатар экансиз, улардаги ажабтовур хангомаларни куриб кулайинми ёки куяйинми дея хайрон булиб коласиз. Масалан, Куконлик мусулмонларнинг 23 кишилик гурухи устидан Тошкент вилоят судида утказилган махкама ишига бир назар солинг.

Жабрланувчи саналмишларнинг бири Курбонова О. исмли аёлнинг бераётган курсатмалари билан танишамиз:

"1991 йил 7 июнь куни тунги соат иккиларда Мурод исмли никохсиз турмуш уртогим билан ётган эдим, хонамга 3 йигит бостириб кирди ва мени Кукондаги "Урмон богига" олиб кетишди. У ерда Кахрамон ака мендан бузук юришни ташлашимни айтиб… отамни ва никохдаги эримни чакириб келиб… мени уларга бериб юборди".

Шу ва шунга ухшаш гаплардан сунг Узбекистоннинг "одил" суди белини махкам боглаб ишга тушиб кетди. Унинг максади шуки, узининг эри була туриб, хохлаган кишиси билан "никохсиз холатда ётаверадиган" аёлларнинг "хаккини" мусулмонлардан ундириб бермокчи! Бундай гамхурликни эшитиб таажжубдан ёка ушларсиз балки?! Аслида бу вокеадан бугунги хукмрон кимсаларнинг мусулмонликда энг огир гунохлардан бири хисобланадиган - зинонинг ва зинокорларнинг пушти панохи эканликлари яккол намоён булади. Аммо бундан кура бадтаррок пасткашлик хам бор бу уринда. У шундан иборатки, хукумат кишилари фохишаларга курсатаётган уз мехрибонликлари эвазига уларни хам уз "касби-корлари" билан хукумат сиёсатини мустахкамлаш йулидаги хизматга жалб килмокдалар. Ха, хукумат учун фарки йук, фохишами, угрими, мафиозими ким булса булар, ишкилиб мусулмонларга карши туриб берса булди.

Энди келинг, хаёлот дарёсига бир лахза шунгиб чикайлик. Фараз килинг, Курбоновани агар уша холатда Кахрамон Хамидовнинг олдига эмас, Убайдулла Мингбоевнинг хузурига етаклаб борилганда нима вокеа юз берган булар эди? У киши бу "жабрдийда" аёлга кандай мурувват курсатган булар эдилар? Балки етаклаб келган кишини хайдаб юбориб, у аёлнинг бошини силаб, узлари билан кабинетда олиб колармидилар…

хозирда бутун республика буйича Курбоновага ухшаганларнинг бозори кизиб кетган. Айникса Тошкент бу сохада хам хаммадан олдинда бормокда. Хар холда пойтахт пойтахт-да! Ана шундай бозорларнинг энг кайноги Республика Прокуратурасининг ёнгинасида жойлашган. Ушбу макола муаллифи шу сатрларни ёзаётиб беихтиёр "Кизик, Бош Прокурор каёкка караётибди экан-а?"-деб юборибман. Шунда ёнимдаги биродарим: "Каёкка буларди ѕ уша бозорга-да!"-деб жавоб берди.

Диндорларни катагон килиш бошланганидан буёгида республикада гиёхвандлик, наркобизнес, порахурлик ва фохишабозлик жадал суръатлар билан ривожлана бориб, узининг янги боскичига кутарилди. Диккатга сазовор нарса шуки, юкоридаги иллатлар хукумат тизими билан бир-бирига каттик богланган ва коришиб кетган холда яшамокда. Хамтовок ва хамтомокларнинг бари хозирда бир-бирларидан нихоятда мамнундирлар. Уларнинг вакилларидан бирининг дил сузлари мана бундай:

Судьяга саломлар фохишалардан,
Наша-ю, вино-ю, ок шишалардан!

Бир пайтлар сурилиб хор булган эдик,
Сиздайин гамхурга зор булган эдик.

Истиклол бизларга бозорлар берди,
Диндорларга катор мозорлар берди.

Бу дунё, у дунё бирга булайлик,
Улсак хам илоё бирга улайлик!

Хужа Насриддин Бухорий
Узбекистон
hmm sir bomasa adresizzi beromisizmi? yoki ozimiz topib borilumi?

[wolk]

oooo odam qqysi ering bilan uylab gapir yapsan sal kallangni iashlatsang ulasanmi
qizlarga shundan boshqa iah qolmabdimi??????????????
undan kura yahsiroq ish ravo kurolmadingmi aaaaaaa
tassavur qil sen uz opa singlinga yoki onanga taklif qilarmiding shu ishni .
agar
vijdoning suni qabul etsa demak sen odam emas ekansan

[UZBEKKIZI]

Pax-Americana (Apr 29, 2002 03:46):

"But the opposite is also true:
If there were less prostitutes to seduce us, men, certainly prostitution would get smaller, as well.

So, to sum up:
if prostitution is the problem, then it is the responsibilty of both sexes.
That's what I think."
__________________________________________________ ___

You are right too, but I think that, still, men are more responsible for it... Then, what would you say about rape?
Rape also "forces" women to become prostitutes, mainly in Muslim countries. Because, having been raped, a women (virgin) cannot be a wife of someone or she is considered to be "used" or even she "has already become" a prositute. Then she feels like she is lost or thinks that she does not have a choice or it effects her psychologically (usually, sexually abused women become mentally disturbed, i.e., they start to hate men and they think that they have to revenge on men for being raped. It seems illogical in some ways, but it is the way how it is) and she willingly becomes one of the prostitutes.
I have heard many cases like that.

I assume that all of these depend on "man made rules" - on men. Why I am saying this is because, when men have illegal sexual intercourse i.e., other than with their wives, they are not considered as bad as women who do the same thing, at all. Why? Because, the "man made rules" are made only for women by men.


thanks,
--d.

[nancy]

couldn't help noticing this ad:

"CHARMING PRINCE IS LOOKING FOR HIS KNIGHT IN ARMOUR."

:) :) :) :)

[Freestyler]

Gore-psihoanalitiki...

Chto vi vsyo spekuliruyete?!?!?

- Mujiki vinovati
-Net, mol, babi bol'she vinovati...

Pustoy spor...

Lichno ya, ne dumayu, chto prostituciya - greh! Da, vot tak vot. Smelo i pryamo. Yesli jenshina idyot na eto po svoyey dobroy vole i pokuda yest' mujiki, kotoriye gotovi platit' za ih uslugi, prostituciya - budet. I presledovat' yeyo bespolezno.

Drugoye delo, kogda na eto tolkayet jenshin ih social'naya i ekonomicheskaya nezashishyonnost', nasiliye so storoni mujchin i procheye!!! Vot gde i s chem nujno borot'sya. Vot chto amoral'no!!!

Vot vam stateyka:
http://news.ferghana.ru/detail.php?id=279&code_phrase=
Pochitayte. U menya dusha v pyatki ushla, prochitav yeyo

[munisa]

- jenshina idyot na eto po svoyey dobroy vole
- Drugoye delo, kogda na eto tolkayet jenshin ih social'naya i ekonomicheskaya nezashishyonnost', nasiliye so storoni mujchin i procheye

Nikogda ne slishala chtob jenshini shli na eto po svoyey dobroy vole, chuj kakoy-to. nu da bivayet kogda princessi iz za slishkogo bogatstva hotyat poveselitsya, no eto ne prostituciya, oni ne budut stoyat' na ulicah. Da eshshyo budut radi zaplatit' mujchinam. Prostituciya eto tolko NASILIYE (ne imeet znacheniya, p-ciya mujchini ili jenshini) A vot i vi sami govorite chto prichina ****social'naya i ekonomicheskaya nezashishyonnost', nasiliye so storoni mujchin****

Statya ochen pravdivaya. Da, est' million sluchayev kogda materi prosto "ubivayut" jen'shin ne davaya im pokoya i tverdya o maleyshih oshibkah. Mujchina doljen postoyat' za jenshinu esli j ona prava, a vo mnogih sluchayah on ne delayet etogo (kak napisano v stat'ye takih sluchayev bilo 322!!!) Ya v kakom-to smisle soglasna s Dil'bar Gulyamovoy, vostochniye jenshini (imenno uzbechki) dobrodushni k laskovomu slovu. Mnogiye gotovi perejit ekonimicheskiy kriziz s lyubashshim mujem (u nas mnogo takih sem'ey v nashem mahalle)
Da, vot vam i drugaya diskussiya : ne imeyet znacheniya - prostituciya ona ili samoubiystvo v nashem obshestve unijeniye jenshin so storoni mujshin vsyo bolshe i bolshe ...






Pustoy spor...

Lichno ya, ne dumayu, chto prostituciya - greh! Da, vot tak vot. Smelo i pryamo. Yesli jenshina idyot na eto po svoyey dobroy vole i pokuda yest' mujiki, kotoriye gotovi platit' za ih uslugi, prostituciya - budet. I presledovat' yeyo bespolezno.

Drugoye delo, kogda na eto tolkayet jenshin ih social'naya i ekonomicheskaya nezashishyonnost', nasiliye so storoni mujchin i procheye!!! Vot gde i s chem nujno borot'sya. Vot chto amoral'no!!!

Vot vam stateyka:
http://news.ferghana.ru/detail.php?id=279&code_phrase=
Pochitayte. U menya dusha v pyatki ushla, prochitav yeyo

[Freestyler]

Da, vot vam i drugaya diskussiya : ne imeyet znacheniya - prostituciya ona ili samoubiystvo v nashem obshestve unijeniye jenshin so storoni mujshin vsyo bolshe i bolshe ...

Imenno na eto ya hotel ukazat' v etoy statye. Molodec, ponyala.
Hotya ya i mujchina, ya otlichno ponimayu na skol'ko jestoki i nespravedlivi uzbekskiye mujchini (ne vse konechno) k svoim jyonam i jenshinam voobshe. Jenshini u nas do sih por kak vtoroy sort ludey...(V sledusyuhiy raz kak-nibud' ob etom).

Nikogda ne slishala chtob jenshini shli na eto po svoyey dobroy vole, chuj kakoy-to
Nu znachit ya perviy, kto vam otrkil glaza na eto. Kogda-nibud' i sami ubedites'...

Kstati, yesho odna iz nacional'niy chert sredi nashih uzbechek, ya zametil, eto ih polnaya naivnost' v podobnih voprosah. Srazu skazivayetsya nedostatok polovogo obrazovaniya ni v semye, ni sredi druzey. (Blago internet teper' yest').

K Vashemu svedeniyu, daje v samih bogatih stranah mira prostituciya procvetayet. Jenshin tam etim zanimat'sya ne zastavlyayut mujchini i uj temboleye ne ih social'naya nezashishyonnost'.
Jenshin vlekut roskosh', bol'shiye den'gi i to, chto oni nazivayut "fun".

[munisa]

Nikogda ne slishala chtob jenshini shli na eto po svoyey dobroy vole, chuj kakoy-to
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nu znachit ya perviy, kto vam otrkil glaza na eto. Kogda-nibud' i sami ubedites'...
_____________________________________________

Izvinyayus', ne podcherknula chto ot umnih etogo ne slishala.

******Kstati, yesho odna iz nacional'niy chert sredi nashih uzbechek, ya zametil, eto ih polnaya naivnost' v podobnih voprosah. Srazu skazivayetsya nedostatok polovogo obrazovaniya ni v semye, ni sredi druzey. (Blago internet teper' yest').
_____________________________________________

lol. Vi pojaluysta budte po konkretneye kogda delayete vivodi (osobenno ob obrazovanii moyey semyi!!! fakti please). Ladno uj priznayus' chto ya ne magistrsha, no takoy stereotip ne mogu pozvolit' Udachi vam v poiske bolee obrazovannoy devushki chem ya !

******K Vashemu svedeniyu, daje v samih bogatih stranah mira prostituciya procvetayet. Jenshin tam etim zanimat'sya ne zastavlyayut mujchini i uj temboleye ne ih social'naya nezashishyonnost'.
_____________________________________________

ocherednaya chuj' K vashemu svedeniyu i jal chto daje mnogokratniye mujchini etih samih stran dumayut odinakovo kak vi. A ya uj dumala vi umnee.

Salyutte.

[o'zbeq bola]

UZBEKKIZI (May 02, 2002 15:47):
Pax-Americana (Apr 29, 2002 03:46):

"But the opposite is also true:
If there were less prostitutes to seduce us, men, certainly prostitution would get smaller, as well.

So, to sum up:
if prostitution is the problem, then it is the responsibilty of both sexes.
That's what I think."
__________________________________________________ ___

You are right too, but I think that, still, men are more responsible for it... Then, what would you say about rape?
Rape also "forces" women to become prostitutes, mainly in Muslim countries. Because, having been raped, a women (virgin) cannot be a wife of someone or she is considered to be "used" or even she "has already become" a prositute. Then she feels like she is lost or thinks that she does not have a choice or it effects her psychologically (usually, sexually abused women become mentally disturbed, i.e., they start to hate men and they think that they have to revenge on men for being raped. It seems illogical in some ways, but it is the way how it is) and she willingly becomes one of the prostitutes.
I have heard many cases like that.

I assume that all of these depend on "man made rules" - on men. Why I am saying this is because, when men have illegal sexual intercourse i.e., other than with their wives, they are not considered as bad as women who do the same thing, at all. Why? Because, the "man made rules" are made only for women by men.

thanks,
--d.

HA, funny structure of thoughts and logic :) a maniak kills bunch of schoolkids, and it turns to be out that it's not maniak to blame, but vielonce in TV, environment or a moment in his life that someone beat him.

"Rape makes girls to become prostitute" - it could be partly true, that rape could contribute to that, but in fact it's a girl who decides to sell her body or not. I have seen bunch of not uzbek girls here, who are not virgin, but still do not sell their bodies. In fact it has to do with a person's character. Pschylogists claim certain part of raped girls in fact want to be victimized, have desire to be raped. It can be that dreams or fantasies of rape folloes them and unconciously they prepare themselves for a such occasion. In such cases rape can be a just break-throught for some who has intention to become a prostitute.

I agree with opinions, that prostitition is because of getting easy money, everybody knows it's not morally acceptable, but still do it. It depends on personality of a girl, who decides to sell her body or not.

To the problem itself and original topic - as prostitution exists despite every possible restriction everywhere and every time it's better to legalize it. It would control prostitution, prevent spread of STD, and would garantee some protection for those women too. The most important it would be a source of taxation, which may control prostitution and make it "hard money job".

[referee]

as far as I'm concerned, I don't really care if some women want to become and become prostitutes, it's their choice... BUT there should be regulations and legal protection of those women who are (were) forced to prostitution and/or abused by their 'dealers' and customers!

The history has shown that it's impossible to eradicate prostitution: it's a survivor type. But what the society can do (if the gov-t is not capable of doing that ) is to try to prevent massive inflow of women into prostitution and harassment of prostitutes, that would entail social protection of women!
What I mean is that we should prevent women from becoming prostitutes (unless they clearly choose to be), and more importantly, we must make sure that there are all available opportunities for prostitutes to integrate successfully back into the society should they want to abandon prostitution.

[UZBEKKIZI]

[quote]referee (May 04, 2002 06:52):

i agree.


thanks,
--d.

[o'zbeg bola]

referee (May 04, 2002 06:52):
as far as I'm concerned, I don't really care if some women want to become and become prostitutes, it's their choice... BUT there should be regulations and legal protection of those women who are (were) forced to prostitution and/or abused by their 'dealers' and customers!

The history has shown that it's impossible to eradicate prostitution: it's a survivor type. But what the society can do (if the gov-t is not capable of doing that ) is to try to prevent massive inflow of women into prostitution and harassment of prostitutes, that would entail social protection of women!
What I mean is that we should prevent women from becoming prostitutes (unless they clearly choose to be), and more importantly, we must make sure that there are all available opportunities for prostitutes to integrate successfully back into the society should they want to abandon prostitution.

completely agree with this view, that would be a really effective solution to regulate the problem.

But I fear, in case of Uzbekistanit will be difficult, almost impossible to pass such a legislation, cause the society will not be ready to accept legalisation of prostitution. There will be bunch of people bringing argumants kinda "islam has been the way of life of uzbeks - no prostitution can be tolarated" etc. :)

[UZBEKKIZI]

o'zbeq bola (May 03, 2002 18:31):
o'zbek bolaga,

"HA, funny structure of thoughts and logic :) a maniak kills bunch of schoolkids, and it turns to be out that it's not maniak to blame, but vielonce in TV, environment or a moment in his life that someone beat him."
__________________________________________________ __
answer please why "funny structure of thoughts and logic" if you can?
__________________________________________________ __
"Rape makes girls to become prostitute" - it could be partly true, that rape could contribute to that, but in fact it's a girl who decides to sell her body or not."
__________________________________________________ __
I don't agree. Please read Pax Americana's message (to which I replied) again."
__________________________________________________ __
" I have seen bunch of not uzbek girls here, who are not virgin, but still do not sell their bodies."
__________________________________________________ __
Don't confuse yourself; as you wrote they are not uzbek women. In addition to, they are not in Uzbekistan but "here". Their situation is different.
__________________________________________________ __
"In fact it has to do with a person's character. Pschylogists claim certain part of raped girls in fact want to be victimized, have desire to be raped."
__________________________________________________ _
Good for you! I am glad that you brought up this example. In a way it strengthens my examples; as I said rape "forces" (!) them to do that; it is one of the reasons why women become prostitutes.
__________________________________________________ _
"I agree with opinions, that prostitition is because of getting easy money, everybody knows it's not morally acceptable, but still do it. It depends on personality of a girl, who decides to sell her body or not."
__________________________________________________ __
I don't think so. Then what would you say about those women who are rich, but have sexual reslations with more than one man?
We have these kind of women in Uzbekistan. It is also a type of prostitution, right? I think you should not generalize your statement.
__________________________________________________ __
"To the problem itself and original topic - as prostitution exists despite every possible restriction everywhere and every time it's better to legalize it. It would control prostitution, prevent spread of STD, and would garantee some protection for those women too. The most important it would be a source of taxation, which may control prostitution and make it "hard money job".
__________________________________________________ __
No, it is not better to legalize it. What are you talking about, uzbek? Please, be reasonable.


thanks,
--d.

[o'zbeg bola]

UZBEKKIZI (May 04, 2002 16:38 ):


my dear, it's a good idea to know what prostitution means - "the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money (!)".

There is a big difference between a prostitute, who has sex for money (selling her body) and a woman who has sex with a man, who is not her regular sexual partner (in German they say "Seitensprung", don't know how you say it in English - cheating ???).

Besides this, we are talking about same things. :)

[UZBEKKIZI]

o'zbeg bola (May 04, 2002 17:05):
[quote]UZBEKKIZI (May 04, 2002 16:38 ):


"my dear, it's a good idea to know what prostitution means - "the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money (!)"
____________________________________________
wait, wait don't look at the "standard" meaning of this word. i know well what it means. but we (all) have been talking about uzbek women ("O'ZBEK QIZLAR TAQDIRI") right? and in uzbek society there is no big difference between these two, that's why i mentioned about that. the same word, which is used for prostitutes in uzbek, is even used for women who just hang around with guys. is not that true? read the messages of nancy, she gave very good examples relevant to our discussion.
___________________________________________
"There is a big difference between a prostitute, who has sex for money (selling her body) and a woman who has sex with a man, who is not her regular sexual partner (in German they say "Seitensprung", don't know how you say it in English - cheating ???)."
____________________________________________
ah, my dear, i think you always try not to understand me, huh? don't do that. let's just talk only about uzbek women, because it fits the title of the discussion more, ok?


thanks,
--d.

[diak]

Guys, it is interesting to read your discussions and let me tell you one thing, which I got abroad.
Every society has its share of every goog and bad. It is simply impossible to imagine society having only goods and nothing in its 'bads' column. Uzbek society is not an exception. You may refer me to " e. o'zbekmiz, ulug' ma'naviyat sohibi bobolar avlodimiz, Ulug'beku Navoiy va hokazo" , but still such legacy does not change the very nature of human character in general and of women in particular. if somebody decides to earn in such way then it is the very choice of her (unfortunately I have to add 'of him' as well, which is shame , but fact). When societal moral restraints are strong enough and society can offer something economic as substitute to those not only in Emirates but also in Italy and etc., only then we may refer to morale and demand to stop and persecute referriing not only to morale but to the objective conditions.
Now I urge you to focus on how to change the situation( blaiming is very easy, but changing the situation is not ). As ample minds do we have somethng to offer instead ?
P.S. I am making assumption that all of you studying abroad are aware of the fact that right to personal development do not prohibit the woman 'to sell herself, her body'. ( Tthose in Germany know it well, there prostitution is recognized as a profession and socially protected).
Concernign personal and moral values ilf we recognize ourselves as Muslims not because of our historical origin( muslims by passport), but also because we do think to be adherents to it then we should recognize that we share the sins of "those once-upon-a-time virgins" unless we do whatever we can in order to prevent them from sin.
Concerning rape and attitude of woman. Guys why not to differentiate between how the people respond and how the religiion responds to the problem. In our society raped woman is labeled as "pariyah" whereas in Islam it is not so. Raped woman is recognized as virgin and societal attitude should be the same as for the virgin.

[Maftuna]

Assalomu Alaykum,

couldn't help saying something.
Well, I agree with Nancy and Uzbekkizi's opinions. I too think women and men are both equally responsible for such things. As we define, prostution is sleeping with people for money. Well, aren't those men paying for sex? So doesn't it make them prostitutes too? Men argue with us and say we try to defend women because we're women too. Please!

You're right, Uzbekkizi, in our society (Uzb) pros-n is not only for-profit business, it is non-profit too. Again it goes to men, hello! those men who are sleeping with married women are the motivation. I always prefer shariat rules over our modern traditions. Agree, we - women - have to be conservative, obedient to our husbands, fathers, and brothers. If you agree with it, then men are responsible for our needs like daily expences, clothes, food, jewelry-everything for life. We don't even supposed to work. Can you do that? Never! Today, men cannot provide for their families. Instead, they're "stay home dad" nowadays, so women do anything to feed their children (and the men too!)

Another thing. They say, erkak izlaganini uydan topolmasa, tashqaridan topadi. Rost. Lekin uydagisining chiqitga chiqarilishining sababi nimada axir. Nima endi ayollar bir umr yosh tura oladimi. Agar ko'chadagilarga sarflanayotgan pul uydagiga sarflansa, bo'ladi ular ham talabga javob beradigan. Tashlab ketilgan yoki hiyonat qilingan ayollar ham keyin alamini olgani ko'chaga chiqib ketadi-da.

Hmm... Asli bu judayam achinarli hol. Man ham hozir USdaman. Yaqindagina bir internet newpaperda Texasdagi bir yosh oilaning qilmishlari haqida o'qigandim. Texas universitetlardan bittasida graduate assistant bo'lib ishlaydigan bir o'zbek akaxonomiz ayollari bilan birgalikda O'zbekistondan noqonuniy yo'llar bilan yosh qizlarni olib kelisharkan-da, keyin ularni local barlarda kiyimsiz o'yinga tushirisharkan. Shu yo'l bilan $700 mingga yaqin pul topishibdi ular. Shuni eshitganimdan keyin yig'ladim, chindan yig'ladim. Avvallari odamlarimizning o'qiyolmagan, ko'pni ko'rmagan va faqat pul uchun yashaydigan qismigina shundayin qabihliklarni qila olishi mumkin deb o'ylardim. Ehh, buni qarang-ki, USgacha o'qish deb kelgan ziyolilarimizdan biri balchiqning o'rtasida ekan. Alam qiladi-da, Hudodan bizni yurtni rivojlantir-u, lekin US yoki boshqa Evropadagilarga o'hshash osiq-sochiq qilmagin, deb duo qilaman. Lekin...

Hudo o'zi insof bersin hammamizga.

rahmat,
Maftuna.

[info]

The Changing Face of Uzbek Prostitution

What perhaps distinguishes Uzbek prostitution is the role of women as pimps. The entire industry is run by women. Here, the vestiges of Soviet influence can be seen: Many of the leading pimps are veterans of the furtive prostitution of the perestroika period, a time when paid sex began to put down stronger roots. In a typically post-Soviet touch, they are known as “Mama Roses” after a character in a Mexican soap opera.

read more at:
http://lab2.cc.wmich.edu/butterfi/344/articles/changing.face.html

[BOBOY]

info (May 05, 2002 16:23):
The Changing Face of Uzbek Prostitution

What perhaps distinguishes Uzbek prostitution is the role of women as pimps. The entire industry is run by women. Here, the vestiges of Soviet influence can be seen: Many of the leading pimps are veterans of the furtive prostitution of the perestroika period, a time when paid sex began to put down stronger roots. In a typically post-Soviet touch, they are known as “Mama Roses” after a character in a Mexican soap opera.

read more at:
http://lab2.cc.wmich.edu/butterfi/344/articles/changing.face.html

info kottakon rahmat info uchun.
omad :)

[BOBOY]

[quote]maftuna (May 05, 2002 15:07):
Assalomu Alaykum,

couldn't help saying something.
Well, I agree with Nancy and Uzbekkizi's opinions. I too think women and men are both equally responsible for such things. As we define, prostution is sleeping with people for money. Well, aren't those men paying for sex? So doesn't it make them prostitutes too? Men argue with us and say we try to defend women because we're women too. Please!

You're right, Uzbekkizi, in our society (Uzb) pros-n is not only for-profit business, it is non-profit too. Again it goes to men, hello! those men who are sleeping with married women are the motivation. I always prefer shariat rules over our modern traditions. Agree, we - women - have to be conservative, obedient to our husbands, fathers, and brothers. If you agree with it, then men are responsible for our needs like daily expences, clothes, food, jewelry-everything for life. We don't even supposed to work. Can you do that? Never! Today, men cannot provide for their families. Instead, they're "stay home dad" nowadays, so women do anything to feed their children (and the men too!)

Another thing. They say, erkak izlaganini uydan topolmasa, tashqaridan topadi. Rost. Lekin uydagisining chiqitga chiqarilishining sababi nimada axir. Nima endi ayollar bir umr yosh tura oladimi. Agar ko'chadagilarga sarflanayotgan pul uydagiga sarflansa, bo'ladi ular ham talabga javob beradigan. Tashlab ketilgan yoki hiyonat qilingan ayollar ham keyin alamini olgani ko'chaga chiqib ketadi-da.

Hmm... Asli bu judayam achinarli hol. Man ham hozir USdaman. Yaqindagina bir internet newpaperda Texasdagi bir yosh oilaning qilmishlari haqida o'qigandim. Texas universitetlardan bittasida graduate assistant bo'lib ishlaydigan bir o'zbek akaxonomiz ayollari bilan birgalikda O'zbekistondan noqonuniy yo'llar bilan yosh qizlarni olib kelisharkan-da, keyin ularni local barlarda kiyimsiz o'yinga tushirisharkan. Shu yo'l bilan $700 mingga yaqin pul topishibdi ular. Shuni eshitganimdan keyin yig'ladim, chindan yig'ladim. Avvallari odamlarimizning o'qiyolmagan, ko'pni ko'rmagan va faqat pul uchun yashaydigan qismigina shundayin qabihliklarni qila olishi mumkin deb o'ylardim. Ehh, buni qarang-ki, USgacha o'qish deb kelgan ziyolilarimizdan biri balchiqning o'rtasida ekan. Alam qiladi-da, Hudodan bizni yurtni rivojlantir-u, lekin US yoki boshqa Evropadagilarga o'hshash osiq-sochiq qilmagin, deb duo qilaman. Lekin...

Hudo o'zi insof bersin hammamizga.

rahmat,
Maftuna.[/quote
Maftuna rahmat kottakon,lekin ayollani kochaga chiqib ketishi faqat hiyonatdan emas bizani o'zbe qizla irodali sal narsaga chiqib ketvurshmidi.
BULAR KO'PCHILIGI SODDA,QIYNALGAN QIZLAR.BIR HILLARINI TURMUSH O'RTOG'I QAMOQDA,BIRINIKI NARKAMAN.LEKIN ULANI YOLDAN URADIGAN BIRINCHIDAN YOMON DUGONALARI IKKINCHIDAN ERKAKLAR YOKI TESKARISI.ULAGAYAM QIYIN HAR BIR FOHISHA KO'RINISHIDAN DARDI YOQQA OHSHASA HAM
UNI ICHI TOLA DARD BOLADI.TEXASDAGI AKAHONDAKALANI OSIB O'LDIRISH KERE IFLOS O'ZINI SIYNISIGA SHU ISHI QIGANICHUN.
OMAD

[MW]

Заместитель премьер-министра Узбекистана Дильбар Гулямова назвала мужа и его родителей основными виновниками самоубийств женщин. По ее словам, экономические и социальные проблемы не имеют отношения к этому.

«99% самоубийств среди женщин происходят из-за насилия в семье, экономические проблемы тут ни причем, можно сказать, что у нас их вообще нет», - сказала Дильбар Гулямова.

[e bittasi de...namucha?]

Ya nikogda ne somnevalsa chto u Dilbar Gulyamovoy yest kakiye to Economicheskiye problemi.
Ekonomicheskiye problemi sushsestvuyut u millionov drugih jenshin nashey strani, tex komu povezlo menshe chem yey, tex u kotorih poroy doma ne hvatayet hleba, tex kotoriye inogda iz za togo chto ne mogut perenesti mucheniya svoih detey, i izza bezvihodnosti konchayut samoubiystvom.
Dilbar Gulyamova konechno je ob etom mojet i ne znat. Nu konechno kak je ona mojet obo vsyom znat? Yeyo mojno ponyat. Ona toje normalniy chelovek. Za vsem ne uglyadish, ne tak li?

P.S. I kak yazik povernulsa u neyo skazat: "U nas mojno skazat ekonomicheskoh problem voobshe ne sushestvuyet"--BULLSHIT Izvinite menya konechno, no ne viderjalsa...

[e bittasi de...namucha?]

ne viderjalsa=ne sderjalsa

[cute]

munisa (May 03, 2002 11:44):
Nikogda ne slishala chtob jenshini shli na eto po svoyey dobroy vole, chuj kakoy-to
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Nu znachit ya perviy, kto vam otrkil glaza na eto. Kogda-nibud' i sami ubedites'...
_____________________________________________

Izvinyayus', ne podcherknula chto ot umnih etogo ne slishala.

******Kstati, yesho odna iz nacional'niy chert sredi nashih uzbechek, ya zametil, eto ih polnaya naivnost' v podobnih voprosah. Srazu skazivayetsya nedostatok polovogo obrazovaniya ni v semye, ni sredi druzey. (Blago internet teper' yest').
_____________________________________________

lol. Vi pojaluysta budte po konkretneye kogda delayete vivodi (osobenno ob obrazovanii moyey semyi!!! fakti please). Ladno uj priznayus' chto ya ne magistrsha, no takoy stereotip ne mogu pozvolit' Udachi vam v poiske bolee obrazovannoy devushki chem ya !

******K Vashemu svedeniyu, daje v samih bogatih stranah mira prostituciya procvetayet. Jenshin tam etim zanimat'sya ne zastavlyayut mujchini i uj temboleye ne ih social'naya nezashishyonnost'.
_____________________________________________

ocherednaya chuj' K vashemu svedeniyu i jal chto daje mnogokratniye mujchini etih samih stran dumayut odinakovo kak vi. A ya uj dumala vi umnee.

Salyutte.


LOL :). Reply ne smog napisat'. Pomoyemu Freestyler toje :).

[Freestyler]

Munise:

Mnogouvajayemaya Munisa!

Ne dumal, chto moy otvet vizovet takuyu vot reakciyu ot Vas. Nado skazat', Vi menya zastali vrasploh...

Da ne delal ya nikakih "namyokov" na vashu "neobrazovannost'", i uj tem boleye Vashey semyi... Ya ni s Vami ni s Vashey semyoy ne znakom i posemu "faktov" (kak Vi izvolili virazit'sya) o yeyo "neobrazovannosti" ne znayu. Sootvetstvenno i namekat' na eto ya ne sobiralsya.

Ochen' ne krasivo s Vashey storoni delat' iz moih slov neobosnovanniye vivodi i uj tem bolee potom vinit' menya za nih.

Yesli je eto bilo vizvano nepravil'nim izlojeniyem moih misley v moyom postinge, to iskrenne proshu prosheniya.

A v kachestve dokazatel'stva moih slov, mojete yesho raz prochitat' posting <referee>, i vseh s nim soglasivshihsya. Hotya on i ne upomyanayet otkrito pro dobrovol'nuyu prostituciyu (ta, chto chuj' po-Vashemu), srazu vidno chto on beryot eto za assumtion.
Ili mojet Vi soizvolite usomnit'sya i v ih umstvennih sposobnostyah?!?!

[munisa]

Ogromnoye spasibo za okazivayemuyu vami uvajeniye!

I vsem tem kto starayetsya tut chto-to pridumat' ob etoy probleme :)

Vi etot post imeli v vidu? :

*********************************
as far as I'm concerned, I don't really care if some women want to become and become prostitutes, it's their choice... BUT there should be regulations and legal protection of those women who are (were) forced to prostitution and/or abused by their 'dealers' and customers!
The history has shown that it's impossible to eradicate prostitution: it's a survivor type. But what the society can do (if the gov-t is not capable of doing that ) is to try to prevent massive inflow of women into prostitution and harassment of prostitutes, that would entail social protection of women!
What I mean is that we should prevent women from becoming prostitutes (unless they clearly choose to be), and more importantly, we must make sure that there are all available opportunities for prostitutes to integrate successfully back into the society should they want to abandon prostitution.
********************************************
A kuda delis' misli ob istorii Arabskogo gosudarstva kogda prorok Muhammad bil liderom vo vremenah "procvetaniya" [saodat zamoni]??? Pojaluysta, hot' eto i bilo vremenno, nel'zya iskluchit' fakt chto jenshini smogli, imeli pravo, sumeli sderjat'sya ot prostitucii. Soglasna, chto krome etogo fakta istoriya pokazivayet to chto referee imeyet v vidu. I eto istoriya takje pokazivaet chto bogachi zastavlyali bednih jenshin i do sih por process odinakoviy. Nu i da, mujchina predlagayet eto prinyat za "survivor type" ! Vot gde nasha slabost' Est tisyacha drugih survivor types, prosto mi doljni sumet ' ih naytti i predlojit' i otkazatsya ot etogo tipa. Skajem tot bogach predlojit yey bit' slujankoy, nadeyu's nikto ne iznasiloval bi bogacha :) Hotya eto samaya orginal'naya gepoteza svoyego roda, no ideya odinakovya: pojaluysta postaraytes ponyat chto nujno nachat predlogat drugiyi tipi uceleniya. Once again, nobody goes for it with the will.

Ah konechno, *assumption*, ne bud'te CIA of America, please.

""""" Dobrovol'naya prostituciya """"" chto vi voobsheto imeyete v vidy upominaya ob etom vsyo bol'she i bol'she. Ya vot i starayus' vam obysanit' chto eti dva slova nikak ne mogut dat' smisl. A vot s postingga odnogo kto soglasilsya s referee, kak vi upominuli:
******************************************

my dear, it's a good idea to know what prostitution means - "the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money (!)".

There is a big difference between a prostitute, who has sex for money (selling her body) and a woman who has sex with a man, who is not her regular sexual partner (in German they say "Seitensprung", don't know how you say it in English - cheating
********************************************

Soglasna, ochen pravilnaya tochka zreniya. Dumayu na uzbekskom eto - "ahloqsizlik" i vsyo. Nel'zya putat' prostituciyu s dobrovol'nim veselyem kotoriy imeet odinakoviy vid, no ne simptom!

Net, mojno iskorenit' prostituciyu i nujno!!!!!!!!! Potomu chto kak uje skazala, nikto idyot na eto dobrovol'no. Posle kak mi iskorenim prostituciyu, eto delo teh samih kto hochet veselitsya etim. Pr-ciya eto nasiliye i nujda, to chto zastavlyayet jenshin. Mi tut mojem sidet i predlagat' chto prostituciyu nujno legalizovat' ili nelzya . No pojaluysta, poka chto hotya bi ona ne legal'naya, poetomu ya hochu videt' implimentaciyu prav i zakonov, kotoriye qarantirovanni konstituciyev. Hmmmda, zvuchit gromko, tak kak i vsyo ostalnoe ...

I vsyo taki soglasites' pojaluysta chto mujchini vo mnogih sluchayah (vo mnogih, ne vseh) otvetstvenni za prostituciyu i sud'bu uzbekskih jenshin'. Ne imeet znacheniya, esli oni ne smogli social'no obespechit ili moral'no podderjat' yeyo. Kstati, pomnyu chto vi uje soglasilis', izvinyayus' Est' konechno i drugii prichini... vse vse vse, upominutiyi v prededush'ih postingah.

Vsyo chto mi smojem sdelat' eto, sledit' za sobstvennimi moralyami i staratsya povliyat' na drugih takje.

spasibo vsem za diskussiyu.

[ISHONCH]

Biz o'z masalalarimiz tashqarisida jamiyatimiz bilan aloqali masalalarda jon kuydirmasak mundan ham qora kunlar kelishi juda yaqin.

O'lkamizda munday narsalardan kuyinip uhlomi chiqadigan qancha kishi bor ?

Faqat kuyinish emas albatta,birgalikta nimalar qilish mumkun shu masalalar ustida bosh qotirish va birnarsalar amalga oshirish.

Birinchidan birnarsalar qila olishimizga ishonishimiz kerak.

Qachongacha faqat quruq gaptan nariga o'ta olmay yuramiz.Hamma narsani davlattan kutishimizni davlatimiz o'zi hohlamayapti.Halqimizni faol bo'lishini istayapti.

Nimalar qilishimiz mumkunligi haqida bosh qotiraylik!

[referee]

few quick comments on this:
munisa (May 07, 2002 13:48):
Nu i da, mujchina predlagayet eto prinyat za "survivor type" ! Vot gde nasha slabost'

----------------------------------------------------------------
I am not suggesting you to accept that prostitution is a 'survivor' and chill off: I am just stating that it's an indisputable fact that it has managed to survive and most probably survive in future. And that's not a weaness, on the contrary, only after admiting that the problem is there and it's hard to resolve it you can actually start resolving it. The point is that it may be more sensible to try to minimise the problem rather than hope for a complete resolution which will never come about....



Net, mojno iskorenit' prostituciyu i nujno!!!!!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------------------
that sounds like a Communist manifesto! USSR stated the same thing but everyone knew that prostitution was there and even entertained our militia who was suppposed to be eradicating it....




Potomu chto kak uje skazala, nikto idyot na eto dobrovol'no.

---------------------------------------------------------
Wrong, many women go to prostitution with their consent, have you forgot about 'easy money' concept? However, many have to become prostitutes because they don't have any choice. As you can see there are various roots to prostitution and claiming that all of them are coercive is nonsense!


Vsyo chto mi smojem sdelat' eto, sledit' za sobstvennimi moralyami i staratsya povliyat' na drugih takje.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
i don't know how improving own 'morality' and others' ethics can eradicate prostitution, do you? If it can, then i wish you lots of luck that will be needed...
Prostitution, as any other comples problem like drugs, is not a straightforward task from A to B; it needs a profound analysis of the causes and well-thought and co-ordinated polices to minimise it (note 'minimise'- i don't have any hopes for a complete solution of such problems for more powerful nations 'materially' and 'morally' have failed so far in that regard)

[UZBEKKIZI]

referee (May 08, 2002 12:54):
few quick comments on this:
----------------------------------------------------------------
"I am not suggesting you to accept that prostitution is a 'survivor' and chill off: I am just stating that it's an indisputable fact that it has managed to survive and most probably survive in future."
__________________________________________________ ____
Yes, you are right it will survive IF men don't stop "employing" them.
Men (many of them) are big supporters of prostitutes.
__________________________________________________ ____
"The point is that it may be more sensible to try to minimise the problem rather than hope for a complete resolution which will never come about...."
__________________________________________________ ____
Hmm... Would you, as a man, mind helping us - women to minimise it? That would be good. Let's start it then...
__________________________________________________ ____
"USSR stated the same thing but everyone knew that prostitution was there and even entertained our militia who was suppposed to be eradicating it...."
__________________________________________________ ____
Cool! I like this example, it shows how "your" militia - men (!) wanted to be entertained. Again, men!
---------------------------------------------------------
"Wrong, many women go to prostitution with their consent, have you forgot about 'easy money' concept?"
__________________________________________________ ____
Because men pay for it. Don't forget that.
__________________________________________________ ____
"However, many have to become prostitutes because they don't have any choice."
__________________________________________________ ____
Because, men don't give them any choice.
__________________________________________________ ____
"As you can see there are various roots to prostitution and claiming that all of them are coercive is nonsense!
__________________________________________________ ____
hmm...


"i don't know how improving own 'morality' and others' ethics can eradicate prostitution, do you? If it can, then i wish you lots of luck that will be needed...
__________________________________________________ ____
I think, they do. I will give more opinions on this, but I have to go now.

thanks,
--d.

[/quote]

[o'zbeg bola]

UZBEKKIZI (May 04, 2002 17:33):
o'zbeg bola (May 04, 2002 17:05):
[quote]UZBEKKIZI (May 04, 2002 16:38 ):


"my dear, it's a good idea to know what prostitution means - "the act or practice of engaging in sexual intercourse for money (!)"
____________________________________________
wait, wait don't look at the "standard" meaning of this word. i know well what it means. but we (all) have been talking about uzbek women ("O'ZBEK QIZLAR TAQDIRI") right? and in uzbek society there is no big difference between these two, that's why i mentioned about that. the same word, which is used for prostitutes in uzbek, is even used for women who just hang around with guys. is not that true? read the messages of nancy, she gave very good examples relevant to our discussion.
___________________________________________
"There is a big difference between a prostitute, who has sex for money (selling her body) and a woman who has sex with a man, who is not her regular sexual partner (in German they say "Seitensprung", don't know how you say it in English - cheating ???)."
____________________________________________
ah, my dear, i think you always try not to understand me, huh? don't do that. let's just talk only about uzbek women, because it fits the title of the discussion more, ok?


thanks,
--d.

the disscussion topic is about prostitution of uzbek girls in UAE, check the first topic.

There is well known definition of prostitution, what can be checked in every dictionary in every language. From your message you seem to have had problems with comprehending the meaning of prostitution. I hope, now you have learned what prostitution means. So don't try to sell your understanding of prostitution to be the one of Uzbek society ;)

p.s. I think the disscussion topic sucks really, prostitution exists everywhere, among every nations, calling problem solely uzbek girls' problem is abusive, in fact it defames representatives of uzbek nationality.

[:(]

Ha tog'ri, bu yoqda kopgina fikrlar keltirilgan. Nuqtai nazarlarga ham qoyil!
Man bitta narsaga sizlarning diqqatingizni qaratmoqchiman. Mana hamma o'smirlar o'zlarining shahsiy va mukammal hayotlarini ko'pincha maktabda boshlashadi. Shu keyingi hayotida bo'ladigan narsalrni o'ylab qadam qo'yishadi.
Nega endi hozir bizlar fohishalar haqida gapirganimmizda o'smirlarning shahsiy hayotlariga to'htalmaymiz. Agar e'tibot bergan bo'lsangiz ko'p shunday voqealar maktabdan boshlanadi. Bilaman, hozirgi kunda ba'zi qizlar maktabda bormay, diskotkalarga borib kunligini o'tkazishadi. Bunaqa qizlardan nimani kutsa bo'ladi? Siz gapirayotgan narsalarni qilish faqatgaina shunday qizlarning qolidan keladi. Har doim o'qib uyda qarashib yurgan insofli qizlardan chiqmasa kerak!
Manimcha bu ish bilan faqatgina ota-ona emas balki o'qituvchi va maktablar ham shugullanishligi kerak. Hozir maktablarni qanaqa ahvoldaligin o'zilar bilasizlar. Shunga qaramasdan maktablar shunday qizlarni ketiga tushishsa boladi-ku!
Mening aytmoqchi bolganim, hamma tarbiyani boshidan boshlamoq kerak. Uydan va maktabdan. Agar unga etibor berilmasa qancha oldini olingani bilan tarbiyasi buzuq odam bilganini qilaveradi.
Hammaga rahmat...

[o'zbeg bola]

UZBEKKIZI (May 02, 2002 15:47):
Pax-Americana (Apr 29, 2002 03:46):

"But the opposite is also true:
If there were less prostitutes to seduce us, men, certainly prostitution would get smaller, as well.

So, to sum up:
if prostitution is the problem, then it is the responsibilty of both sexes.
That's what I think."
__________________________________________________ ___

You are right too, but I think that, still, men are more responsible for it... Then, what would you say about rape?
Rape also "forces" women to become prostitutes, mainly in Muslim countries. Because, having been raped, a women (virgin) cannot be a wife of someone or she is considered to be "used" or even she "has already become" a prositute. Then she feels like she is lost or thinks that she does not have a choice or it effects her psychologically (usually, sexually abused women become mentally disturbed, i.e., they start to hate men and they think that they have to revenge on men for being raped. It seems illogical in some ways, but it is the way how it is) and she willingly becomes one of the prostitutes.
I have heard many cases like that.

I assume that all of these depend on "man made rules" - on men. Why I am saying this is because, when men have illegal sexual intercourse i.e., other than with their wives, they are not considered as bad as women who do the same thing, at all. Why? Because, the "man made rules" are made only for women by men.


thanks,
--d.

heh :D just imagine yourself in place of a raped girl and think if you would become a prostitute? what the hell virginity to do with prostitution? if a girl is not virgin does it mean according to your understanding she will be automatically a prostitute?


as for rape - it is a crime, which cannot be justified by no means.

It is a male who commits crime in this case and it is only him to be responsible for that. Don't try to use your logic here saying kinda "but I think that, still, women are more responsible for it, as women force men to rape them" 8)

[UZBEKKIZI]

[quote]o'zbeg bola (May 08, 2002 15:32):

back again to attack me?:>

what is UAE? actually, have you read the comments of nancy, you should. read them carefully, then you will understand why i have this notion, ok?

good luck uzbek,


thanks,
--d.

[UZBEKKIZI]

[quote]o'zbeg bola (May 08, 2002 15:42):

"heh :D just imagine yourself in place of a raped girl and think if you would become a prostitute? what the hell virginity to do with prostitution? if a girl is not virgin does it mean according to your understanding she will be automatically a prostitute?"
__________________________________________________ ___
uzbek, don't get so excited. did i say that every uzbek woman raped becomes a prostitute? "the hell virginity" has to do a lot with a virginity! if you don't want to understand even simple things then don't ask any questions either, ok? and i am not going to explain you everything. what is your goal, "to win" me?? think wisely, ok?_______________________________________________ ______
"It is a male who commits crime in this case and it is only him to be responsible for that. Don't try to use your logic here saying kinda "but I think that, still, women are more responsible for it, as women force men to rape them"
__________________________________________________ ___
wait, wait... whose words are these? don't be ridiculous. what are you saying here?


ps "etti o'lchab bir kes" degan ekanlar.


thanks,
--d.

[UZBEKKIZI]

UZBEKKIZI (May 08, 2002 16:03):
[quote]o'zbeg bola (May 08, 2002 15:42):

"heh :D just imagine yourself in place of a raped girl and think if you would become a prostitute? what the hell virginity to do with prostitution? if a girl is not virgin does it mean according to your understanding she will be automatically a prostitute?"
__________________________________________________ ___
tuzatish, "virginity"=>"prostitution":
uzbek, don't get so excited. did i say that every uzbek woman raped becomes a prostitute? "the hell virginity" has to do a lot with prostitution! if you don't want to understand even simple things then don't ask any questions either, ok? and i am not going to explain you everything. what is your goal, "to win" me?? think wisely, ok?_______________________________________________ ______
"It is a male who commits crime in this case and it is only him to be responsible for that. Don't try to use your logic here saying kinda "but I think that, still, women are more responsible for it, as women force men to rape them"
__________________________________________________ ___
wait, wait... whose words are these? don't be ridiculous. what are you saying here?


ps "etti o'lchab bir kes" degan ekanlar.


thanks,
--d.

[tokiec]

soglasen, tema naiaktual'neyshe-arhivajnaya


Potom soglasen so vsemi kto obvinyayet Mujchin, potom samih Jenshin, i vsy oobshestvo v celom. mi vse v otvete za eto.

Munisa, Freestyler ne prav, kogda govorit chto eto specifika nashih jenshin, eto specifika vseh jenshin dumat', chto ni odna jenshina ne poydyot na panel' po dobroy vole.

Buhorogi, ti ne prav kogda govorish' chto prostuticeiy zanimayutsya tol'ko gorodskiye devishki, ya skoree vsego skazal bi chto prostituciya razvivaetsya v gorode i eto tak. potomu chto tam gde lyudi kajdiy den' vidyat drug-druga eto ne budet razvivat'sya.
prosoy primer, nash obshiy drug, chto v Tokyo, kogda delayet kakuyu nibud'glupost' pri lyudyah posotyanno tverdit - a kakaya nafig raznica, mi je inostranci oni nas ne znayut! eto samaya rasprostranennya logika teh kto ne jivyot u sebya doma.

da eshyo, J.J.Russo, govorya o prave i sile, dokazivaet, chto po mere otsutstviya soprotivleniya nel'zya govorit' pro prinujdeniye, a skoree vsego neobhodimo chto lyuboye deystviye sdelano po dobroy vole. tak chto esli oni ne soprativlyayutysa, ne ishut drugogo puti dlya zarabotka, to i nechego i govorit' chto oni poshli ne po svoyey vole.

v sluchae je, kotoriy moy drug Buhorogi privodit, devushke povezlo, chto u nee poblizosti okazalis' horoshiye druz'ya. k sojaleniyu takih druzey malo...

i voobshe, prav Freestyler: Kaznit' nel'zya pomilovat'! (a zapyatuyu postav'te sami)

da eshyo: buzoq ko'zini suzmasa, buqa arqon uzmaydi.

tokiec

P.S. mnogoye iz napisannogo ya prochital, i aya rad chto vi ne stoite na storone, i goryachyo prejivaete za budushee...

[referee]

UZBEKKIZI (May 08, 2002 13:35):
referee (May 08, 2002 12:54):
few quick comments on this:

"Yes, you are right it will survive IF men don't stop "employing" them. Men (many of them) are big supporters of prostitutes."

----------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, mainly men (not all!) take up those services but women provide them, one could say that if women stoped providing those services men wouldn't 'employ' them! One can also say that women receive monetary benfits for 'easy job' and if women really wanted to stop men getting those pleasure all they need to do is to raise the price to unpayable levels and/or provide not-so-pleasant services that wouldn't bring men back to them....

Above arguments are 'male mimic' of your views!That 'shame and blame' policy leads us nowhere: finding a scapegoat doesn't really help the situation!



"Hmm... Would you, as a man, mind helping us - women to minimise it? That would be good. Let's start it then..."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I would, and believe me there are many other men who don't want to see women coerced into prostitution. BUT men can't stop women who wish to become prostitutes, and men can't stop other men who are willing to use those services. These are limitations that we can't ignore, unless you want to see a total despotism of the society based on puritan 'moral' principles....


"Cool! I like this example, it shows how "your" militia - men (!) wanted to be entertained. Again, men! "
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Now, you are gonna blame the whole menhood on the evils of the world?! I won't even comment on that ridiculous position...


"Because, men don't give them any choice."

----------------------------------------------------------------------
What do you mean? Do you mean that men actually build schools of prostitution, send their women to study in it and finally find them jobs according to that qualification????
Our discussion is exactly on how to create those prostitution-free choices but it doesn't completely depend on a male section of the society - it is a problem that a society as a whole needs to take up to resolve!! I know that Uzb society is a paternalistic one but if you leave major social problems concerning women solely for mens responsibility then you are on a ground zero again, men will look at it from their prospective. So, one need to engage men and women if a workable solution to this problem is to be created!


[/quote]

[UZBEKKIZI]

to referee:

ok, i am getting tired of it. whatever you think is right for you, and whatever i think is right for me, ok? my aim is not to explain or to prove you something. just admit that men and women are responsible for it in general; but in our society men are more resposible for it more than women.


ps. ruslar kelmasidan avval fohishalar toshbo'ron qilib o'ldirilgan ekanlar. shuning uchun ham fohishalarning soni hozirgidan juda kamchiliklni tashkil etar ekan. demak....


pps. haqiqat egiladi, lekin sinmaydi.


rahmat,
--d.

[referee]

UZBEKKIZI (May 09, 2002 11:23):

"ps. ruslar kelmasidan avval fohishalar toshbo'ron qilib o'ldirilgan ekanlar. shuning uchun ham fohishalarning soni hozirgidan juda kamchiliklni tashkil etar ekan. demak...."

--d.

ye, let's stone to death prostitutes, drug-addicted, alcoholics, gays, lesbians, fundamentalists, oppositionists, blacks, refugees, foreigners and any others who "contribute" to the misery of our sacred Uzb.... I am amazed how typical that is that our people get from 'looking into' a social problem with the view of solving it to actually 'punishing' the very people affected by the problem.......

[UZBEKKIZI]

referee (May 09, 2002 12:30):
UZBEKKIZI (May 09, 2002 11:23):

"ps. ruslar kelmasidan avval fohishalar toshbo'ron qilib o'ldirilgan ekanlar. shuning uchun ham fohishalarning soni hozirgidan juda kamchiliklni tashkil etar ekan. demak...."

--d.

ye, let's stone to death prostitutes, drug-addicted, alcoholics, gays, lesbians, fundamentalists, oppositionists, blacks, refugees, foreigners and any others who "contribute" to the misery of our sacred Uzb.... I am amazed how typical that is that our people get from 'looking into' a social problem with the view of solving it to actually 'punishing' the very people affected by the problem.......


:) you are funny. did i say that one has to stone them...? (you can do that if you want:))
it is your opinion and don't make it "mine". i thought you would give some other reasonable solutions.

ps. i think you are intelligent enough to understand what i wanted to point out to you.


thanks,
--d.

[haaa]

UZBEKKIZI (May 09, 2002 15:56):
referee (May 09, 2002 12:30):
UZBEKKIZI (May 09, 2002 11:23):

"ps. ruslar kelmasidan avval fohishalar toshbo'ron qilib o'ldirilgan ekanlar. shuning uchun ham fohishalarning soni hozirgidan juda kamchiliklni tashkil etar ekan. demak...."

--d.

ye, let's stone to death prostitutes, drug-addicted, alcoholics, gays, lesbians, fundamentalists, oppositionists, blacks, refugees, foreigners and any others who "contribute" to the misery of our sacred Uzb.... I am amazed how typical that is that our people get from 'looking into' a social problem with the view of solving it to actually 'punishing' the very people affected by the problem.......


:) you are funny. did i say that one has to stone them...? (you can do that if you want:))
it is your opinion and don't make it "mine". i thought you would give some other reasonable solutions.

ps. i think you are intelligent enough to understand what i wanted to point out to you.


thanks,
--d.

right implies "UZBEKKIZI" - the whole menhood is to blame on the evils of the world. It is men, who are fully responsible for prostitution, men force women to become prostitutes. If there were no men, there would be no prostitution, men should be punished for prostitution - that 's what written in koran - both paying for service (prostitution) and rendering service should be stoned, so was it before soviets came to Uzbekistan. sart Babur wrote in Baburnoma that male were responsible for prostitution, so was it good, there were not so many prostitutes like today.

You, uzbek, how can you speak about legalisation of prostitution - noway, it's not solution at all, the solution in our society is to punish men, who more responsable for prostitution then woman.

Yeah i think you are intelligent enough to understand what i wanted to point out to you.

pps. ikki kara ikki barobar to'rt.

rahmat

no offence, just having fun here :D

[referee]

hey dear, my sarcastic response was to your previous post that suggested the vurtues of stone-throwing and stated:

"ps. ruslar kelmasidan avval fohishalar toshbo'ron qilib o'ldirilgan ekanlar. shuning uchun ham fohishalarning soni hozirgidan juda kamchiliklni tashkil etar ekan. demak...."


anyways, you can carry on with your 'all men are bastards' attitude, i don't care - i just offered you to look at the complexity of the problem and its solution. but hey, I guess who needs a long-term solution, people need a short-term scape-goat to put a blame on...

[Freestyler]

Uuu, sorry, guys, I can't keep up with this one... :)

[reader]

prostitusia ochen drevniaya professia-ona bila i vsegda budet. I etim zanimautsia kak zenshini tak i muzchini. vi ze znaete nekotorie muzchini predpochitaut malchikov i platiat im ochen mnogo i mnogo bogatih babulek kotorie
pokupaut molodih malchikov. poetomu vopros kto bolshe vinovat zenshini ili muzchini ne korrekten.

V Gollandii v Asterdame est spesialnaya ulisa krasnih fonarey-RED LIGHT ZONE-vse doma s bolshimi kak dveri oknami. Posle 5 chasov okna otkrivautsia i na oknach pojavliautsia devushki v odnih kupalnikah. Tam obichno massa turistov. Etot "publichnij dom" v Gollandii a devushki pochti vse iz Azii, gollandok net potomu chto v Gollandii est massa drugih dostoynih sposobov zarabotat dengi na zizn.

[Freestyler]

Stranno, ya tam ni odnoy aziatki ne vstrechal...
Mojet ne tuda smotrel?

Note: reader, ya tam toje bil v kachestve turista :)

Note N2: Prostituciya legalizovanna pochti vo vseh stranah zapadnoy kontinental'noy Yevropi, krome UK.
No i zdes' k etomu otnosyatsya, ya bi skazal, vpolne terpimo. Eskortniy biznes, k primeru, zdes' procvetayet.

Glavniy argument v pol'zu legalizacii prostitucii - eto to, chto ona pozvolyayet yeyo regulirovat' v ramkah pisannogo zakona. Krome togo, s etogo biznesa gos-vo poluchayet podohodniy nalog.

[UZBEKKIZI]

to referee:

:) qizishmang, qizishmang, nima men sizga hamma erkaklar deb aytdimmi? ha, namuncha bu...?
xatlarimni qaytadan yaxshiroq o'qing, yaxshi tushunmagan bo'lsangiz, ok?


rahmat,
--d.

[UZBEKKIZI]

uzbek, you? "missing" me?


:) no offence


thanks,
--d.

[UZBEKKIZI]

to haaa:

uzbek, you? "missing" me?


:) no offence


thanks,
--d.

[reader]

Stranno, ya tam ni odnoy aziatki ne vstrechal...
Mojet ne tuda smotrel?

v 98 bilo mnogo aziatok. Mozet oni kazdiy god ih meniaut?

Note: reader, ya tam toje bil v kachestve turista

kak naschet Muzeya pitok? Muzey sexa?
A spesialnie zavedenia -kafe gde yakobi mozno skushat "cake" s dobavkami posle kotorih lovish obaldenniy kayf. Nu